REALLY? So you bitch about burning coal. You bitch about nuclear, you bitch about wind power. No matter what anyone does, you bitch about it. Maybe renaming your column "Ranger Bitch" is in order.
Rocky: The promoters have the answers and they're not talking. No doubt they'll tell all eventually - but not until AFTER it's a done deal and AFTER the city council has been circumvented and AFTER the citizens, contrary to the mayor's assurances, have not been allowed to vote on issuing the bonds. Check in with Joel Miller where you will get the facts - not Gazette spin. http://www.joelmillercoloradospringscityco… and https://www.facebook.com/JoelMillerColorad…
It might be better for COS to not issue bonds, thereby saving $100M in interest payments over their 30-year life, money which will undoubtedly be needed to pay for truly vital community needs. If the stadium/museum complex is a good idea, then the promoters should pay for it. El Pomar Foundation, one of the major promoters, at the end of 2011, according to IRS form 990-PF (available online) had $455M in assets, most of it liquid. EPF has the ability - but does it have the will? - to build and maintain a USOC museum and/or stadium without any financial assistance from the citizens, the state, or bond holders.
C4C is too important to leave to the promoters. Trusting the mayor and his allies to do what is right for US is foolhardy. The financial and other consequences of making a mistake of the magnitude of C4C are grim. I too want the Indy to do investigative reporting. It's investigative reporting - that which challenges the powers that be and exposes their chicanery - that garners Pulitzer Prizes.
Mr Curious Im the fella that asked the questions in your first post. And as expected no answers from the GT or the Mayor. So yes I would like to see the INDY go out and get the answers. Someone should. I have tried to keep up with this topic but everything is hidden so well no one has answers or there not saying. Is it true the only rebate were going to get is from taxes this project generates? Is it true that if this project makes enough profits to pay back the bonds that after we cant use the profits for things like storm water, roads or watering the parks? If not then what will those profits be earmarked for? If theres no profit in this project. Why do it? What is the benefit to the people that payed for it? I understand that it may bring more people in to visit and thats great for hotels and dining places and for State taxes. But what about those that pay for it all?
Here's an online Gazette comment from a citizen who also has some questions:
... now were hearing multi use stadium... I dont see it drawing very much. the non profits ... Does that mean the City is not allowed to profit from these attractions? If not how we going to get our money back? So if they do make money all profits go to paying the bonds to build these things. The tax rebates only kick in after these things are up and running. So does that mean the only money we get back is a portion of the tax money those attractions receive when there up and paying the taxes to the State? Hows that work out to be a rebate? The wording made it sound like we build it work it to pay the State so they can pay us a part of what we earned. If thats true wouldnt be better to build the whole thing pass on the rebate and keep the profits to pay the bonds and for things we need and just give the State there taxes. I would like to see a full accounting of this deal before they sign it.
OK, mayor Bach, WE WANT ANSWERS. If we don't get answers, WE are not going to play ball with you. And, yes, you have to play ball with us or we are not going to give you our money.
From the online Gazette: This is Wayne's reply to councilman Miller's posted response to today's editorial: "Councilman: The editorial states that state tax rebates are not a city TIF. They are not. So you are simply wrong about that."
What follows is councilman Miller's post. Judge for yourselves which commenter presents facts and which does not. Judge which of the 2 understands the issues involved in C4C and which does not. Judge which is a trustworthy source of information and which is not.
Councilman Miller's post: First, let me give you the financing facts on City for Champions City Incremental Tax Financing (TIF) which were recently obtained by a Colorado Open Records Act request. And, yes, that’s a City TIF—though the Gazette editorial piece states there is not a City TIF funding the projects, that is patently incorrect. In fact, City for Champions employs State, County and City TIFs.
TIFs establish an economic baseline over a portion of the City. In the case of City for Champions, the portion covers approximately 90% of the City; 90% of cash registers in the City will contribute to paying for City for Champions for 30 years. If you would like to see the map of this “Regional Tourism Zone,” please follow this link: http://www.joelmillercoloradospringscityco…
TIFs divert a portion of sales tax from the General Fund (the General Fund pays for Police, Fire, Roads and other core services) to help pay for other projects. In the case of City for Champions, 100% of City Sales Tax above the established baseline will contribute to paying for City for Champions projects for 30 years. 100% . 30 years. Approximately 90% of the City’s cash registers.
This is all clear through the financial plan, which proponents have not shared with citizens and press.
Second, let’s discuss Bass Pro. Before the area was developed, it was nothing but a dirt field. So, any economic growth above a pre-established baseline is easily attributed to the development. In the case of City for Champions, on the other hand, if there’s a burger joint located four miles from the new Academy Visitors Center and that burger joint enjoys an upswing, that upswing and the accompanying City tax dollars above the baseline will be attributed to the Visitors Center and the other projects, and the upswing will pay for the projects.
Furthermore, the TIF on Bass Pro is not 100% and the portion that is diverted from the General Fund does NOT subsidize developers—it will go directly and exclusively toward completing Powers Boulevard to I-25. The completion of Powers serves the public and when Powers is complete, the TIF will end.
I’m a staunch supporter of the Colorado Springs Airport and served on the Advisory Board for nine years. Southwest Airlines has told Airport officials that completing Powers would significantly improve the possibility of Southwest coming to Colorado Springs. While I opposed the Bass Pro area designation as urban blight and am not a fan of Tax Incremental Financing, because any revenues above the baseline are irrefutably attributed to the project and the TIF completes a vital roadway and will end when the roadway is complete, the TIF serves a valid public purpose.
Finally, the Bass Pro developer generously supported my opponent during the campaign with financial and in-kind donations. I have not accepted donations from any developer and never will, so that citizens can trust my decisions regarding development involve no conflicts of interest.
In today's Gazette there is another attack by Wayne on councilman Miller. The city has been awarded $120M from the state, so WHY do these juvenile diatribes against Miller continue? Wayne's dizzy editorial is an attempt to lead Gazette readers to believe that Miller is the only person in COS opposed to C4C. The Gazette doth protest too much, methinks. Which makes me further think that Miller is a force to be reckoned with. So . . . break out the bubbly and chalk up one for our side.
Wayne, while slinging darts and arrows at the councilman, answers none of the burning questions swirling around C4C. Question like income sources for making payments on the $250M or more of bonds to be issued. Wayne said no city portion of STIF will be applied to make bond payments. He wrote: "C4C proposes ... a state portion, not a city portion to help fund the projects." But Wayne misspoke. The fact is the STIF portion will be scooped off the top and go towards bond payments. This error/mistake/obfuscation/lie requires a retraction by the Gazette. But will the retraction to set the record straight be forthcoming? Expect a wall of silence. More questions: WHO will develop the property? WHO is going to pay for building cost overruns? WHO will own the stadium, museum assets? WHO will own the liabilities? WHO will be hired to run the non-profit entities and HOW MUCH will they be paid? WHO is going to pay maintenance, should it be deferred? HOW will bond payments be made if STIF revenue is insufficient and WHO will have to pay? All we opponents are asking for is answers to these, and a number of other, questions. And after all questions have been asked and answered to our satisfaction, we will happily climb aboard the band wagon.
The firearm sales on bases are subject to all the same laws and restrictions as off base, PLUS there are restrictions regarding purchases by junior troops, all firearms kept in housing have to be registered, cadets can't keep firearms, firearms cannot be carried on base, active duty personnel living in dorms have to keep the firearms in the armory, etc. So, your concerns about having " guns easily available on a college campus" have no real foundation.
In fact, it is not at all uncommon for bases to have "rod and gun clubs" and to allow these to sell firearms. I bought several firearms from base "rod and gun clubs" in the 80s and 90s, several while at bases overseas.
As for suicides, while the majority of suicides in the US are completed with firearms, several studies have shown that removing firearms has no affect on suicide rates.
Gary: Good questions. Anyone have answers? Anyone? The Gazette won't talk the tough talk. But maybe the Indy's investigative reporters will . . . seek and find and tell.
Face it; we don't have a government. At least not one that adults would recognize.
Our mayor looks like Dopey the Dwarf, thinks HE is the whole government, that all he has to do is wave his hand over the podium at a rubber chicken dinner and 6000 jobs will arrive on our doorstep every year. Magical thinking like that is the domain of 5 year olds but the local GOP does a good job providing the electorate with such infants.
We have a city council leader who looks like Don Imus' puckered face, believes he is the big cheese and stomps around like a spoiled child who can't get his way with things.
We have 2 doofuses doing a kabuki dance of political theater within the envelope of a strong mayor charter that was poorly written by land developers, lacks the specificity needed to define roles, authorities, limits, boundaries and mechanisms for resolving issues.
Face it, the city is doomed. We are the City 4 Chumpions.
Revealing article and interesting comments thus far. The article (and comments) reveal statistics that get a few interpretations from one of the higher ed leaders, from the columnist, and now from the comment givers. Numbers don't lie, but they can certainly be interpreted in different ways. So, whose interpretation of the supposed causes/effects BEHIND these stats are we to believe?
I teach at a local college; my wife teaches at a local elem school...you can imagine the discussions WE have about these same issues and stats because of the real, live students we face everyday that make up these NUMBERS. The article is only beginning to scratch the surface and I appreciate Bolton's observations to help wake us up to some possible causes.
Now, let's go deeper.
Don't we need some critical thinking skills to find our way through? And with only 4 comments after two weeks, it seems like our motivation is a bit low as well. Critical thinking skills and Motivation -- might these be additional factors needed in the conversation? ...and within our schools AND families as well?
I see I got 5 dislikes, but not a single person even tried to refute anything I stated. ROTFLMBO!
Sally Alberts! One comment you made was the first I have heard saying about solutions then you digressed into the same old same old. It is against the law to kill another human. Does that stop anyone? So the mentally challenged advocate for more laws! It is so tiresome and nothing will be done due to the loud mouths who must be appeased and have their nonsense addressed before logic and reason can be introduced.
Why send a child to school today anyway? They don't seem to be being educated.
Back in your day you recall fire drills. That was my day too. When I was 7 and in Elementary school we stopped having firing fire drills and started having nuclear attack drills. 1961 and the Cold War was about to become a shooting war with nuclear warheads placed in Cuba by the Soviets. The Soviets put them there, they were aimed at us and I believe they were Socialists. The form of government we will have if we continue down the path of ignorance we are on. Firearms will be the least of your worries and you will not worry about your children as they will be raised by someone else. The leaders will have all the weapons and all the money.
I know of solutions and if you want to hear them ask me but I have wasted too much time on this already. Your stance on firearms is a total ban and I am not fooled. Being a liar is a drag huh? It must suck to be you. I will ask: Whose job is it to protect your children? Answer that correctly and you are your way to enlightenment not the darkness of Socialism.
Robert Wyman....nice hat!!
And the camera is over this way......
Really enjoyed the article, thanks!
I always have mixed feelings, when reading the stories like Joan Hoyt's, who is 61, and still studies. On the one hand it's difficult for me to understand their aims and motivation, on the other I really respect and adore people so active late in life.
Jull from http://www.cashloansonlinefast.com/
Sarah Pali....I mean Lisa CVZXZWEVZXZXAJKTDO
Thanks for the long rambling note. I hope I am indeed alive and well in four years. ONE year would be nice. Anyway, thanks for your insight. You should have gotten involved in local politics.
"From an actual letter to the state economic commission:" Really? You have seen actual letters and/or emails sent to the EDC? Regardless, agree that Bruce Jenner doesn't have the appeal of Garbo, Dietrich, Keaton, etal, to whom no shrines have been built.
During the blitzkrieg campaign unfolding to sell the wobbly benefits of building a stadium/museum complex, benefits that include putting COS on the road to duplicate the success of Oklahoma City, a city that just like COS had the empowering vision to build a stadium. Or was the success of OKC due to the obvious - that city's embrace of energy - not wind farms but OIL - and the revenue and prosperity for all that followed hard upon.
Our mayor says he wants the approval of the people, the very people who will be paying $350M and then some to build and maintain C4C for the next 30 years. City council is an important player in the decision making process. Let your opinion regarding C4C be heard. Contact them at firstname.lastname@example.org
"into something different. Frankly, anything different." Words that can be applied to why COS local government changed to a Mayor-Council form of government. Residents wanted any type of change for the City and approved a ballot measure despite the charter having numerous errors and being unclear on responsibilities between the executive and legislative branches. I think if you read the report and really listen to their comments, EDC gave COS the money in order for our City to recover. Despite having both a 3rd party economic analyst and EDC staff recommending lower amounts, as well as some of the official application criteria not being met, they approved the full amount. Why? Fire, flooding, and being the only City to apply got Colorado Springs that money. It wasnt who wrote letters, or traveled on a bus thru a wintery storm, or who even sang for some dollars. COS has a chance to make some monumental changes for the City and Im excited to see a fire lit in this City to improve it's situation. It's reminds me the deal my hubby and I made with our teenager. "If you get all A's and B's, only then you can have a phone." The offer and opportunity are there for COS but action still needs to be taken. Rich, if you are still alive nor senile in 5 years, hopefully you will be writing on the completion and successes of the 4 projects. The real work of planning, funding, and community conversations begin now.
Sally, it's too bad your view that "our world seems to become more frightening and dangerous" is having a detrimental affect on your enjoyment of the Holidays, but if you'd choose to conduct some research, you'd find that firearms violence is actually decreasing, except in some large, urban areas (Chicago, Detroit, D.C.) that have enacted massive regulatory measures (simply Google "is gun violence up or down" for overwhelming evidence of this).
Please make a resolution next year to get the facts and tangible data about matters that concern you before succumbing to such distress, and in the meanwhile, have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
I don't think we should be using city bonds or local tax funds to build facilities for the state university or federal government.
Buddy Buck- be careful of what you wish for. A poor plan is just that. Missy Palin once said the same thing about lipstick on a pig. In summary, I support any plan that might lead to any transformation of our village from a 1980s enclave of lousy jobs, Jesus nuts and gun loonies into something different. But Frank, if that's your real name, anything different is like the Colorado Springs no-name soccer team winning the world cup. I know, I know, it will produce 867 jobs. That's a hell of a mark up for $250 million. Why don't we just sell our own Mega Colorado Springs Lottery tickets. With 1 in 259 million odds, why we could pay for this entire City for Champions thing.
For I see now a day when we stride into our new Olympic museum and empty stadium, and see, right there in front of us, Jenkins' varsity shirt, Bruce Kardasian's purse and the signed letter from DeBachel stating "I shouldn't have eaten the whole thing". Don't forget Duck Dynasty Day at the stadium..brought to you by Bass Pro...
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