Arguing religion is analogous to two little kids arguing over who's dad is the toughest. Besides, the muslims have the current lock on who is biggest and baddest. They can kill all non-believers and get a pass because everyone is too chicken shit to call 'em on it. We wouldn't want to be politically incorrect, would we?
Mormons have no trouble cooling hatred of gays and marriage equality, the same way they got over hating black mormons as priests; mormons hear directly from god -- who likes to channel many of his edicts to them on letterhead stationery from the Justice Dept. The hand of god really does move in mysterious ways, doesn't it.
Really? Yes, it was first revealed to Apostle Peter, but it was Apostle Paul who preached it to the Gentiles, and that was the point I was making. (The other Apostles had a dispute over this issue if you read on thru the book of Acts and only wanted to preach to the Jews.) Saul was going by his Judian beliefs and killing Christians (today it is the gay person that you say can't be saved) and then he was converted The reason Saul was blinded by the revelation was he had such darkness in his heart and the light of the Truth revealed to him blinded him spiritually and physically. He changed his heart and learned to love and accept the Gentiles, and preached all thru the middle east after the Jews set to try to kill him. Later He was imprisoned by the Romans, but because he was a Roman by birth, he had Roman citizenship, and rights with being tried under false pretenses, the same as our US Constitution gives Americans.
I don't have time to teach it all to you, so I paraphrased it. My point is still valid. "What God hath cleansed thou not call common" and that was the change from the Law to the Grace period. That ends the Law and Grace abounds to all persons now. Read Ephesians: By Grace we are saved, and not of works, lease any man boast." It was Christ's sacriface as our savior that got Gentiles salvation and nothing we can do but to accept Romans 10:9-10 to become born again. Later, Dude.
You said: Then guess who appears to Saul and says, WTF to you think you are doing? What I have cleansed don't you call common.
I say: Really? Jesus says "WTF"?????
First of all.. you have your stories mixed up. It was the Apostle Peter who had the vision of the animals and the Lord changing the rules about what clean and common... not Saul. Second.. It was Peter who was commanded to take the Gospel to the Gentiles. Go read Chapter 10.
For someone who is trying to school me.. it is you who needs it more.
Such is the wages of sin. The church... any church.. is only there for the people. It is not saving itself. The church disappears when the people do. And if the people want to live in their sins.. don't expect the church to change to accommodate them. There is no need.
And as far as it goes requiring the Church to put money behind an organization that would destroy them in a heartbeat if they could.. just doesn't make much sense. No.. this is where you have to let dead dogs lie.
And what you call fiction.. is just you closing your eyes to reality. Don't worry.. the day will come when you find out that your belief system was in error. But until that day comes.. live on. :-)
IF the Mormons are serious about a change of heart then let them spend $20M and put thousands of people out canvassing in SUPPORT of marriage equality in those states that don't have it. Don't hold your breath folks, ain't gonna happen.
Meanwhile, realizing the battle is lost, they now act all sappy sweet with the flock of fools so they can keep fleecing them financially. Compare that to the Catholics who've seen their income fall off a cliff for decades since their refusal to allow even simple passive birth control.
Meanwhile, England just approved marriage equality, nationwide. Bravo!
Organized religion is a scam based on total fiction, a hoot to watch ... and a danger to us all.
Part 3- Saul who was extremely zealous against the Christians since they were blaspheming by declaring Jesus as Christ, set out to hunt them down and killed them. Then guess who appears to Saul and says, WTF to you think you are doing? What I have cleansed don't you call common. (Chapter 8) He was referring to the fact that now Gentiles were accepted by God to be saved. And Saul is converted on the road to Damascus and became the new Apostle Paul who brought the word of the Lord to the world!
Read the book, I don't have time to teach you this. I already went thru all of this with bigot TT, so you can just read my former comments back a month or so.
If you continue reading the book of Acts you will see that the Apostle preach Christ to the Jews, but when they reject the word, God reveals plan B, to allow the gentiles to become saved by Grace, since they were not of the blood line of Christ (OT), and this takes us into the new testament.
NOW I HAVE TO SCHOOL YOU, FOOL! KJV Acts chapter 1: 5- For John truly baptized with water; but you shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost (spirit in a believer) no many days hence. 8 But you shall receive power after that the Holy Ghost (spirit in a believer) is come unto you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea, and in Samaria, and to the utter most part of the earth. Ahd when he had spoken these things, while they beheld he (Christ) was taken up and a cloud ( the Ascension of Christ 40 days after his Resurrection - 40 days is a significant number in the Bible as a period of trial like with Noah) received him out of their sight.
Now 10 days later ( I forget what 50 represents) is the day of Pentecost where the Apostles were gathered in a quarters, VS 13 thru Chapter 2 (excuse me I didn't have my Bible on me) when it speaks of how they then received spirit and spoke in tongues, 2: 2- and suddenly came a sound from heaven as of a mighty rushing wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting . And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as fire (represents spiritual purification) and it sat (completion of receiving spirit from God) upon each of them. And they were all filled with Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues as the spirit gave them utterance. This is what is referred to as baptism of Holy Spirit.
You said: Mormons have fought against civil rights for Gays, and were the principle money behind Prop. 8. When it comes to promoting an unconstitutional, anti-civil-rights agenda, it's tough to find a worse group than the Mormon Church.
I say: Here is the whole story.. not just the parts you choose to tell:
In March 2000 California voters overwhelmingly approved a state law providing that “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.” The California Supreme Court, in the case of In Re Marriage Cases, on May 15, 2008, overturned this 2000 California law that established marriage as between a man and a woman. At the time, certain members of the California electorate had already been seeking an amendment to the California constitution that could not be overturned by judicial review.
A ballot proposition was prepared by California residents opposed to gay marriage and disturbed by what they viewed as judicial activism. The measure needed 694,354 signatures to be placed on the ballot but 1,120,801 signatures were submitted. The measure, known as Proposition 8, was certified and placed on the ballot on June 2, 2008. The LDS church was NOT involved in placing Proposition 8 on the ballot.
AFTER Proposition 8 was placed on the ballot, the LDS Church was approached in June 2008 in a letter sent by San Francisco Catholic Archbishop George Niederauer. This letter initiated the formation of a coalition of religions with the common goal of promoting passage of the proposition. The coalition included Catholics, Evangelicals, Protestants, Orthodox Jews, Muslims, and Latter-day Saints.
Church members were not told how to vote on Proposition 8. As stated in the letter and the satellite broadcast, members were asked to “do all you can to support” the passage of Proposition 8. There was no commandment for members to work on the campaign. Support was organized at a local level and volunteers' experiences varied according to area, need and campaign leaders. Members were asked to support Proposition 8 ("We ask that you do all you can to support the proposed constitutional amendment..."), but not commanded. While prophets may ask people to do some things, the actual “doing” is left to the individual and their agency. It is their choice to determine whether to do what the prophet asks and how much to actually do. Church leaders are aware that members within the church come from different backgrounds, have different life experiences, and different ideologies. To make an ultimatum on this issue would unnecessarily alienate people.
The "No on 8" group campaign did NOT emphasize that California ALREADY has domestic partnership laws in place which grant same-sex couples the civil rights associated with marriage. (See California FAMILY.CODE SECTION 297-297.5)
The Church did not oppose such matters, writing:
The focus of the Church’s involvement is specifically same-sex marriage and its consequences. The Church does not object to rights (already established in California) regarding hospitalization and medical care, fair housing and employment rights, or probate rights, so long as these do not infringe on the integrity of the family or the constitutional rights of churches and their adherents to administer and practice their religion free from government interference.
Rather than acknowledge this fundamental aspect of the issue, Proposition 8 was portrayed by its opponents as removing marriage rights. The passage of Proposition 8 did not remove already existing rights for same-sex couples, except for the use of the word "marriage" to describe such unions.
The same rights, privileges and protections that were in place before the election remained in place after the election. However, religious organizations perceived a very real threat to their rights if Proposition 8 did not pass. The right to be licensed to perform adoptions was in jeopardy in California, as demonstrated by the North Coast Women's Care Medical Group Inc. case decided on 1 April 2008 by the California Supreme Court. This decision held that those who are licensed by the State cannot treat homosexuals differently than heterosexuals. It is easy to see how such a holding will result in LDS Social Services being denied licensing to perform adoptions if it won't perform adoptions for homosexual couples. Thus, religious groups perceived no gain and no loss to same-sex couples from passing Proposition 8, but anticipated a large possible downside to religious organizations and their essential services if it did not pass.
Opponents of Proposition 8 have criticized the Church for donations to the "Yes on 8" campaign. Records filed with the State of California indicate that the Church did NOT make any contributions with the exception of an "in kind" contribution (non monetary) for some travel expenses. All other LDS-related money was contributed by Church members individually, NOT by the Church.
Now that Duwayne Anderson... is the whole truth.
@ Duwayne Anderson
Your wrote: "I'm on the side of free agency and civil rights."
So there should be no problem supporting polygamy in the US. Right?
You wrote: A poser wrote: "and I will be a witness to it." Mormonism is highly appealing to the narcissistic mind.
I say: No.. nothing of the kind. The Bible taught.. "At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death" I will just testify of what I said here today. No biggie.. right?
You wrote: A poster wrote: "The homosexual lifestyle is a sin." People are born Gay. Your religion is a lifestyle, being Gay isn't.
I say: You are right.. people are born gay. The homosexual lifestyle is the acting out of being gay. Just like an incestuous lifestyle is acting out of committing incest... or an adulterous lifestyle is the acting out of committing adultery. It is the doing... it is the acting on it. Being gay is to have same sex attraction. But you need not act on it. Not if you are following the commandments of God. If you are NOT following the commandments.. well then.. it is a sin.
The JD was started by a man in England who wanted to record speeches made by Mormon missionaries. He developed shorthand and eventually enlisted others as stenographers.
While the JD is a valuable source of history and information from the time, it is not an official publication of the LDS Church. It was not vetted for doctrinal accuracy or that the speeches were recorded accurately. The speeches were recorded at a time when recording devices did not exist. The speeches were not reviewed by the Church or by the speakers for accuracy of content or intent. There is no guarantee that they always accurately reflect what the speaker said or meant to say.
The JD is not a source of official doctrine of the Church. Church leaders have repeatedly said that when they are speaking for the Lord they will publish this in official pronouncements. At other times, they are free to express their private views the same as any other individual. Many of these were recorded in the JD.
Critics of the Church often engage in selectivism, cherry picking more obscure statements from sources like the JD while ignoring the repeated official teachings of the Church. This is not good scholarship or even very honest.
Church leaders have repeatedly said that when they are speaking for the Lord they will publish this in official pronouncements. At other times, they are free to express their private views the same as any other individual.
@gurudori said: "If you bothered to read the book of Acts chapter one, you will see the proof of this with the 12 disciples also speaking in tongues as proof of the salvation of Christ that they received. "
As I look over Chapter 1 of Acts.. I see nothing you mentioned. Here is what I see:
Jesus ministers for forty days after His resurrection—The kingdom is to be restored to Israel at a later time—The Twelve are to bear witness in Jerusalem, Judæa, Samaria, and the uttermost parts of the earth—Jesus ascends into heaven—Matthias is chosen to fill the vacancy in the Twelve.
Will you show me where I am wrong here?
A poster who goes by the name of Duwayne Anderson said: "Mormons actively fought against the Civil Rights movement, with Mormon leaders calling the movement a "communist" plot."
Most nineteenth-century Latter-day Saints were raised in a world where all Black people were either slaves or illiterate poor. At the time there was much debate among American Christians in general as to how Blacks fit into God's overall plan as described in the Bible. Many theories abounded, with virtually all of them justifying, in one way or another, slavery or relegation of Blacks to the role of second-class citizens. There was even debate as to whether or not Blacks were human beings with souls that could receive salvation. (In contrast to this general Christian view, Joseph Smith declared rather progressively that yes, Blacks did have souls and could be saved.)
This continued into the twentieth century. Some LDS leaders were wary of the civil rights movement that started in the 1950s, and publicly stated their concerns. But there were differences of opinion among the brethren on this. At one end was Elder Ezra Taft Benson, who believed that the American civil rights movement was a front for communism; at the other was President Hugh B. Brown, who felt that the Church should publicly support the civil rights movement.
Men are called as Prophets.. and Prophets are just men. Until God reveals his will to his prophets.. they are on their own. Prophets in all dispensations have been "men of their times," who were raised with certain beliefs and interacted all their lives with others who shared those beliefs.
A poster who goes by the name of Duwayne Anderson said: "Mormons fought against the Equal Rights Ammendment and were largely responsible for it's defeat."
Awe Duwayne. The LDS Church was not the only organization in America to oppose the ERA. Religious groups sponsored by Catholic and other Christian and Jewish faiths also opposed it. Secular organizations, most notably Phyllis Schlafly’s STOP ERA, campaigned against it as well. The Republican Party wavered in its support for the amendment and still managed to win the 1980 election. Clearly, the American populous – inside and outside the LDS Church -- was not without reservations when it came to the ERA. However, this does not mean the majority of the nation was against women’s rights simply because it was unsatisfied with the ERA. A popular slogan of the day was “Equal Rights, Yes. ERA, No!”
As I stated before.. you live by the precepts of men.
Tell me.. why do you feel the need to change my name? A form of disrespect? Very Christ like.. but then again.. since you are saved by the grace of God.. you can do anything.
Mr Nimrod. Again, I don’t have to follow your interpretation of the Bible- I am a born again Pentecostal believer since I was 6 years old and have been speaking in tongues ever since. If you bothered to read the book of Acts chapter one, you will see the proof of this with the 12 disciples also speaking in tongues as proof of the salvation of Christ that they received.
My salvation is not conditional like yours, so I feel sorry for you believing you are living in sin and so sin conscious that you don’t see the love and grace of God. I am not sin conscious but Grace conscious of my redemption and through Christ I was Redeemed from sin, which means Christ paid the price for the sins of mankind, Justified as in just as f I have never sinned, Sanctified which means set apart from sin, and made Righteous which means Right or Correct before God.
If you don’t line my Christ given rights, Sonship rights as we called them in my church, I suggest that you take it up with him. Again, I don’t have to live by your doctrine but my own and you have NO right to judge me. LMMFAO at you!
It is not the end of the world. We don't believe the world is going to end so you can't be laughing at us.
Just because you follow "some" of the commandments, and not others, does not mean you are saved. That is a false doctrine you are preaching there. You think that because the Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ that sodomy and laying with mankind all of a sudden became.. OK? Really? Christ died on the cross so the gays can have sex?
You said: "so any sin that I have I can now ask my Lord to forgive me of it, and my sins are forgiven." And this is true. Under one condition. That you forsake the sin. You can not die in your sins and be saved. How can you think that asking for forgiveness with the intention of committing it again and again is somehow going to get you in the presence of God? Another false doctrine and teaching. These are the teachings of the precepts of men... and not of God.
end-of-the-world cults are fun to laugh at... not sure what else they are good for.
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