"Lets have a dialog on this..."
Well, Mick, I've actually provided factual evidence that your lack of support for the 2nd Amendment and calls for its abolishment are not only misguided and counter-intuitive, they're abysmally myopic and self-serving.
Again, if you don't want to own a weapon, that is certainly your prergogative, but it truly stops there, as decisions you make for yourself have absolutely zero bearing on what mine were, are or may be.
Bottom line is, such extreme and intrusive proposals are doomed to failure, and even suggesting them exposes you to exactly the kind of ridicule and disparagement you've been receiving here.
You want respect? Fine, earn it, which won't happen by suggsting you're the arbiter of what is properly Constitutional or applicable to me and my household. An example?
"the reason the framers added this to the bill of rights at that high of a position is no longer valid or needed in this millennium"
Says who? Just because you feel it's outdated and inapplicable in contemporary society doesn't mean others do, so please, save us the platitudes and faux-superiority; you're on the losing side of this debate, and shall continue to remain so, my condolences for maintaining lock-jaw subservience to such an inherently flawed ideology, and since you find yourself in such a deep rhetrocial hole, my advice would be: quit digging!
"You folks seem to continue to push this false message that gun safety legislation is going to take your guns away," - Lil Mick
Not all of them all at once. But countless legislators and politicians have espoused doing basically that by adopting restrictions like those in the UK and Australia, where owning even a shotgun is very difficult and everything else much more so, and where massive "mandatory buy backs" and turn-ins were held -- AKA confiscations and bans. You can claim that no one wants to do this until you are blue in the face, but you are only fooling yourself.
"Background checks help to keep guns away from those that may want to harm others" - Lil Mick
Universal background checks do not. They were such a spectacular failure in California that they have continued to pile on more and more restrictions. In the first year in Colorado, there were fewer such checks done after the law made them mandatory than there were done voluntarily the year before. They are useless and unenforceable.
"and smaller magazines will give victims a chance to get away when the perpetrator has to reload."
Largely a myth. It takes only a second or two to reload. Most people can't even react fast enough to take a few steps in that amount of time and if a tactical reload is done (the Sandy Hook gunmen appears to have done 6 to 9 of these), then a person can still be shot during the reload. In most cases where people have been able to react, it was due to a malfunction (Tucson, AZ shooting) or a completely fumbled reload.
"To me that is common sense gun safety legislation." - Lil Mick
And to many others, it makes no sense at all. What you call common sense, others call common appeal. Just because many people believe it and support it does not mean it makes sense or will work.
Now, as to comparing cars and firearms. Driving on public roads is a privilege, not a right. We only license people to drive on publicly maintained roads. They can own vehicles and drive all they want on private property without a license. So compared to firearms, that would be the same as licensing for concealed or open carry in public places, but not to buy or to carry or shoot on private land. It is not the same as a background check.
As to the types of vehicles we can own and use, the restrictions are again only regarding use on public roads. You can own any vehicle you want and drive it on private property all you want. So applying your analogy, we could still own and shoot AR-15s, we would just not be able to carry them in public places.
"we need to discuss this issue, too many people in this country are dying from gun deaths, " - Lil Mick
The rate has been trending down even as the number of firearms in circulation has been dramatically trending up.
We need to quit focusing on the object used and start focusing on the behavior and the causes of the behavior. In simple terms, when it comes to gun violence, quit obsessing about the "gun" part and start addressing the "violence" part. With over 300 million firearms in private hands and over 10 million AR-15 type rifles in private hands, if the objects were truly the problem, we would be looking at a lot more deaths than we are seeing.
"Rules of Engagement for an Adult Dialog" - Lil Mick
That is cute, coming from you.
GOP Poisoned Zika Bill To Satisfy ‘Crazies,’ Says Harry Reid
That explains how the Confederate flag, contraception and clean water deregulation got linked to fighting mosquitoes, the senator said.
BRING IT ON, GLENN. I believe the Tea Party is on their way out cause the GOP HASN'T ACCOMPLISHED MUCH IN THEIR 7 YEARS MAJORITY IN THE SENATE.
The GOP actually cost our country MILLIONS with the shut down! REMEMBER THE PARKS BEING CLOSED and lost of revenue? Remember those who were out of work for 2 1/2 weeks? Well, they got paid so the GOP basically gave them a 2 1/2 week vacation for the GOP HISSY FIT! Yet, since then, the unemployment rate, interest rate and deficit are all down from the crash that happened during the Bush administration.
LibertyForAll and Odin
Rules of Engagement for an Adult Dialog
1. Respect Opinions
That's right, we all have them, we are all entitled to them, and we have the right to share
them. Most importantly, opinions are never wrong...respect them.
2. Facts are Debatable
This should be what the dialog centers on, are the facts one presents to back up the
opinion correct or not. Facts can be wrong.
3. No Name Calling or Labeling
Seriously, do I really need to add this...apparently thanks to Liberty and Odin, I do.
There ya go, lets have a good dialog, an example...
The only lasting solution to the gun issue is to repeal the 2nd amendment.
- Guns are the only privately manufactured and marketed good that we constitutionally protect the owner ship for.
- This constitutional protection has helped two private industries, the gun lobby and gun manufactures to reap in billions in profits.
- The actual reason the framers put it in the bill of rights right under number one, is because they wanted to protect their right to maintain a civilian army "militia's". They were a bit paranoid and I understand why. This reason no longer exists.
Because the reason the framers added this to the bill of rights at that high of a position is no longer valid or needed in this millennium. Since that was the only reason and now all it does is allow the private gun lobby and marketers to profit, then the amendment is no longer needed and should be repealed.
Lets have a dialog on this...
Once again, LibertyForAll, has to attack me, call me names and attach labels to me and my opinions.
It's as though they seem to operate like we don't have a right to our opinion when it differs from theirs.
LibertyForAll and Odin, are incapable of a friendly, respectful dialog. They have to attack the messenger.
When one of you folks can debate my thoughts and opinions, completely on the merits and not say one word about me, I will respectfully respond back.
It is in fact what I am trying to introduce here, friendly, respectful, mature dialog on our difference of opinions. :)
Just to inform the rest of you...The "always hyperbolic, fact-averse "Mick" is a he, not a she.
Although I am a long haired, pagan man.
You are all in my prayers as far as your wild fires this season. Hoping Manitou is doing well, I lived in the Springs when they were having those horrendous floods.
Peace and Love to You All. :)
Folks, here we have the always hyperbolic, fact-averse "Mick" trying vainly to drum up support for more over-reaching, excessively-regulated, "feel good, accomplish nothing" gun control.
While she's certainly free to provide her "VHO" in a public forum such as this, one must wonder what she hopes to accomplish, since shredding her viewpoint is easily achieved with even a minimal amount of logic and basic common-sense which I'll now provide:
"We don't let certain folks drive a car if they for instance have too many DUI's"
Although comparing a firearm to a Firenza is a total apples-to-oranges analogy--but don't stop Mick when she's rolling, LOL!--we actually don't allow criminals to maintain possession.
"Background checks help to keep guns away from those that may want to harm others, and smaller magazines will give victims a chance to get away when the perpetrator has to reload"
Background checks are already in effect, and reload times can be as little as three seconds, regardless of magazine size.
Your link is cute--if as partisan as it gets--and it's telling you don't mention that gun deaths are way, WAY down from their peak in '93 (but since that data doesn't fit your shrill, pre-packaged narrative, we hardly need to wonder why):
Miss Mick, hundreds of millions of citizens have exercised their legal, Constitutionally-protected right to own hundreds of millions of guns, and the ability shall remain, regardless of what your uneducated, ill-informed opinion may be. I know you'd like to dictate what is acceptable for others--thus saving us from ourselves *snort*--but if what me or mine do doesn't affect you and/or yours, please refrain from offering lifestyle choices.
"We have to start considering what is the better good of all and not just ourselves"
The collective, "royal", "We" already has, and the rights guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment have won, while those on your side just keep rattling your cages, which is kinda funny, but mostly ridiculous.
"We have to start acting and thinking like intelligent adults"
You first, but color me skeptical whether you have the means and/or ability...
Bummer about Calandra. Now I'll have to vote for a democrat.
Does this show that there may be a change in El Paso County with Klingenschmitt LOOSING to a MODERATE REPUBLICAN?!! I for one am very glad to see "Dr. Chaps" out of public office and off the payroll!
This place is amazing .... An incredible facility. Colorado Springs again is behind the curve.
Gun Deaths Compared to Motor Vehicle Deaths
Motor vehicle deaths are on a steady decline nationwide, thanks to decades of applying proven public health-based injury prevention strategies to reduce death and injury. Meanwhile, gun deaths continue unabated. Guns remain the only consumer products not regulated for health and safety in the United States.
The VPC publishes an annual analysis of federal Centers for Disease and Control and Prevention data comparing gun deaths and motor vehicle deaths on a state-by-state basis. The most recent analysis shows that in 2014, gun deaths outpaced motor vehicle deaths in 21 states and the District of Columbia.
Nine out of 10 American households have access to a motor vehicle while a little less than a third of American households contain a gun. To reduce the unacceptable toll of death and injury, firearms must be regulated for health and safety just as we regulate motor vehicles and all other consumer products.
Larry, in my very humble opinion, I don't think your analogy works at all.
You folks seem to continue to push this false message that gun safety legislation is going to take your guns away, like your analogy on taking cars away. That's just false.
Universal background checks will not take your guns away.
Smaller magazines will not take your guns away.
Background checks help to keep guns away from those that may want to harm others, and smaller magazines will give victims a chance to get away when the perpetrator has to reload.
To me that is common sense gun safety legislation. As long as you are not a risk to others Larry, you may keep your guns, even with the above legislation.
We don't let certain folks drive a car if they for instance have too many DUI's, that can be analogous to someone failing a background check for good reason.
However, if someone wants to drive a car who is not licensed can still do so, just as a person denied a gun sale can still get a gun if they really want to. None of these laws are absolute, of course folks can get around it if they want.
That doesn't mean we just give up and let drunks drive, or mentally ill get guns.
Let's go a step further, let's say there was a ban on assault weapons, or semi-automatic long guns, however, you want to describe them. Well, there are also certain types of vehicles we do not allow on the roads.
Look folks, we need to discuss this issue, too many people in this country are dying from gun deaths, far more than any other country in the world ( excluding countries currently at war).
That's a problem and needs to be addressed, the status quo is not ok.
We have to stop the false messaging that your guns are going to be taken away.
We have to stop the shouting and start having a dialog.
We have to start acting and thinking like intelligent adults.
We have to start considering what is the better good of all and not just ourselves.
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"None of his points had any factual content"
Please show me the "factual content" in your diatribe.
Hint: it doesn't exist; it's just opinion and conjecture, while I actually discussed the Constitution as a document that applies to us all and confers various rights upon the citizenry.
You lose, which I'm sure is a daily occurrence.
I know it stinks that you can't control others--as the gov't controls you and provides all your thoughts, words, deeds and fiances--but that's the way it is, and Harry Reid has a better chance of winning the gold in female gymnatics in Rio than your nonsensical proposal has of being enacted.
"Take your own advice before lecturing others.."
Odin nailed it, but your latent hypocrisy is gonna make it a difficult pill to swallow; my condolences regarding your immaturity and faux-indignation.
I apologize to all for a personal note to Lil Mick.
“LibertyforAll” at one time used a different name. Don’t know why he changed it, (have my suspicions) but he hasn’t changed his modus operandi, which is mostly to insult. It is a compulsion he seems incapable of setting aside, and beyond which he has little to offer in the way of civil discourse. Once I realized with whom I was arguing, I dropped it. He will deflect, change the subject, but mostly he’ll insult.
We’d all do well to ignore his postings.
As for your Second Amendment question, I have an opinion:
Our Founders, who wrote the definitive Document of the Enlightenment, had good reasons for writing the Second Amendment as they did. I’ve come around to believing that it would NEVER have entered their minds that citizens should NOT have the right to possess a firearm. I don’t believe that it was ever an issue in their thinking.
Rather, the Second Amendment was written to fill glaring needs of the fledgling nation…a need that well regulated (and armed) militias filled during the War of Independence, a need out on the frontier, a need to combat the threat of southern gangs of escaped slaves, a need for an organized response to possible invasions, a need to combat the threat of pirates that were invading coastal settlements, the need to establish an arms industry to meet the demands of an expanding nation. I am of the notion that it would have NEVER occurred to them that some sort of threat to personal possession of arms would ever be an issue even in light of the Red Coats’ isolated efforts to seize arms from local “radicals”. So the well regulated militias established armories, and trained their members.
I believe there is, then, an underlying “Spirit” of the Second Amendment which is unspoken and is, perhaps, the source of Second Amendment Absolutism. But it is that absolutism which will end up destroying that very “Spirit” of the Second Amendment with which we might ALL agree. There are MANY aspects of today’s “gun issues” that are not addressed or even considered in the Second Amendment, and what is NOT in the Second Amendment could reasonably be discussed if the absolutists would take a step back and recognize that fact, and work toward resolutions which would serve the common good, rather than the interests of the Corporate arms industry.
We trusted this attorney with a video of a city bus accident. when we asked for it back it had been edited. He kept it for two weeks and led us to believe he would represent us. He took sides with the city instead. DO NOT TRUST THIS MAN
"STOP the shouting...STOP the name calling and labels...START communicating like adults.."
Take your own advice before lecturing others.
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