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Comment Archives: stories: News

Re: “New downtown Colorado Springs tourism project shot down

I'm just curious. If people love Boulder and Denver so much, why not move there? I think they are both wonderful cities in their own respect. I don't want to live in either place. I love COS. It's a beautiful city with wonderful people. We don't need to become another Boulder or Denver. We need to be the best COS we can be. And that means allowing the people of COS to say what they want--to vote on what we, the citizens, believe is best for our city. If anything, Boulder and Denver have something I think would be great to incorporate into COS and that is a 16th street mall area. We need a place where people can come together of all socio-economic facets and every other distinction. Think public market which has floundered for years because of no assistance or support from the mayor's office, developers, or the city. Having seen firsthand the energy of two public markets in DC, and Ponce Market in Atlanta and knowing how much they bring to areas, this would seem to be a solution. In recent local surveys, a public market/gathering space was much higher on the list than a stadium. Seattle Pike's Place (the 33rd most visited tourist spot in the world--Annual Visitors: 10,000,000). Another one is from my old hometown of San Antonio. Why not combine stormwater efforts with creating a tourist-friendly Riverwalk with restaurants, shops, apartments, etc. SA's Riverwalk Annual Visitors: 11,500,000. Connect it to a market like the Faneuil Hall Boston Annual Visitors: 18,000,000 or incorporating the bus/trolley and maybe later, train terminal like Union Station DC Annual Visitors: 40,000,000. When people visit the Springs they come to see and experience all the beauty of our area. I love museums. They are great. But let's do something that we lack. A third space for our residents and tourists that combines apartments of all sizes and costs, shops, restaurants, public transportation, outdoor spaces, concert venues, etc. This will create an energetic downtown and will energize our economy.

8 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Vikki Walton on 04/12/2017 at 12:08 PM

Re: “New downtown Colorado Springs tourism project shot down

Cswilliam: "it takes broad based tax revenues, and great governmental leaders, in partnership with visionary developers, to assemble the resources - financial and technical - to create something new and great. "

Translation: "assemble the resources"=taxpayer dollars when we're told daily there's not enough for critical roles of government like roads, stormwater and public safety.

How about these visionaries invest THEIR OWN money and not ours? Not one dime of private
money was pledged for the stadium. Nobody should have any problem with the free market making people wealthy who take risks. In the case of our downtown, taxpayers and the public are asked to take the risks, make the investment and the developers are then first at bat to reap the rewards and become wealthy on the taxpayer dime--cronyism and government picked winners and losers. Just because this ridiculous chapter is temporarily closed no one should think it's over or not ongoing.

18 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Joel C. Miller on 04/12/2017 at 10:49 AM

Re: “New downtown Colorado Springs tourism project shot down

Cswilliam, people here HATE being compared to Boulder and Denver for some reason.Oh wait, fuddy-duddies and a lot of old farts who simply hate change. Seriously. To them it's an insult. I would love it if we were more like those two cities. Vital, open-minded and NOT so darned conservative...besides most of our downtown is rife with bars and more bars. Another family is seeing to that....

6 likes, 6 dislikes
Posted by rdee on 04/12/2017 at 10:23 AM

Re: “Rep. Doug Lamborn announces town hall meetings

The House takes off for two weeks, during which Lamborn will spend a scant 5 hours, over only three work days, meeting with the Constitutents of his Congressional District. What a guy.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by asawatcher on 04/12/2017 at 10:11 AM

Re: “Tax resisters see movement grow in Donald Trump's America

Tax protests in Colorado Springs:
https://youtu.be/yZF6uYlcKyU
https://youtu.be/rqiquK1A7SQ
https://youtu.be/onFF1kkooNk
This year there will be a local march being coordinated with a national march demanding Trump's tax returns: http://taxmarch.org/
facebook.com/events/103040433572149/

1 like, 2 dislikes
Posted by Bill Burns on 04/12/2017 at 8:44 AM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

In his initial post, Odin claims that Planned Parenthood is, "A company which was founded by a proponent of eugenics who thought minorities, especially blacks, and people with mental disabilities should be sterilized."

According to Wikipedia, Sanger believed in the 'need to limit births by those least able to afford children." No mention of sterilization, as opposed to other forms of birth control, and no singling out of "minorities, especially Blacks." In fact, "she rejected race and ethnicity as determining factors. Instead she stressed limiting the number of births to live within ones economic ability to raise and support healthy children."

Odin implies that Sanger is a racist, yet Wikipedia reports, "Sanger worked with eminent African American leaders and professionals who saw a need for birth control in their communities. In 1929, James H. Hubert, a black social worker and the leader of New York's Urban League, asked Sanger to open a clinic in Harlem. Sanger secured funding from the Julius Rosenwald Fund and opened the clinic, staffed with black doctors, in 1930. The clinic was directed by a 15-member advisory board consisting of black doctors, nurses, clergy, journalists, and social workers. The clinic was publicized in the African-American press as well as in black churches, and it received the approval of W. E. B. Du Bois, the co-founder of the NAACP and the editor of its magazine, "The Crisis." Sanger did not tolerate bigotry among her staff, nor would she tolerate any refusal to work within interracial projects. Sanger's work with minorities earned praise from Martin Luther King, Jr., in his 1966 acceptance speech for the Margaret Sanger award."

So, what is the basis for Odin's accusations? Again, Wikipedia provides an answer: "Sangers view of eugenics was influenced by Havelock Ellis and other British eugenicists who held that environmentally acquired traits were inherited by ones progeny. Sangers view put her at odds with leading American eugenicists, such as Charles Davenport who took a racist view of inherited traits. She continually rejected their approach." It appears that Sanger's difference of opinion with other prominent eugenicists was too subtle for Odin to comprehend. Instead of reading up on her actual opinions, he read up on eugenics in general and attributed to Sanger the worst that he could find. (I am assuming that Odin did his own original research, although it is quite possible he merely repeated inaccurate information from a biased source.)

Furthermore, "In personal correspondence she expressed her sadness about the aggressive and lethal Nazi eugenics program; and donated to the American Council Against Nazi Propaganda. In addition, Sanger believed the responsibility for birth control should remain with able-minded individual parents rather than the state, and that self-determining motherhood was the only unshakable foundation for racial betterment."

One final note: "Due to her connection with Planned Parenthood Sanger is a frequent target of criticism by opponents of abortion, although Planned Parenthood did not begin providing abortions until 1970, after Sanger had already died."

0 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/12/2017 at 6:49 AM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

Yes, indeed, Jefferson was flawed, but my point is that Margaret Sanger was likewise a flawed individual. And just as Jefferson's flaws do not reflect badly on the nation, Sanger's flaws do not reflect badly on Planned Parenthood.

Ironically, Sanger's belief in eugenics did not result in any attempt to enforce those principles in American society, whereas Jefferson's belief in the equality of men did nothing to prevent the enforcement of slavery in American society.

I think we both have a balanced picture of Jefferson. I suggest we spend more time reading up on Sanger.

Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/12/2017 at 5:59 AM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

Jefferson was flawed. No doubt about that. He was an idealist who failed to live up to his ideals, a common enough failing for which the haters of hypocrisy will not forgive him. But he was not, as the NYT article is titled, The Monster of Monticello. But being a Virginia planter with a large estate, one requiring hundreds of workers, a plantation whose income did not exceed expenses, and a big spender who was continually in debt due to his indulgence in the good life, he needed, as did his fellow plantation owners, unpaid labor.

I cannot dismiss Jefferson as a hypocritical monster when he was loved and held in high regard by Adams, who was an idealist who did live up to his ideals. The biography on Adams contained a lot of information on Jefferson, as both men, while representing the U.S. in France, became close friends. The bio quotes a few of Jeffersons opinions about slaves, some of which were complimentary, some misinformed, and some demeaning, but its human nature to demean people you are mistreating in order to quiet ones conscience. Due to Jeffersons perfidy during the 1804 election, their friendship ended, but years later they reconciled and began a 14-year correspondence where the 2 old Revolutionary comrades explained themselves. The correspondence ended when both Adams and Jefferson, amazingly, died on the same day July 4, 1826. To get a balanced picture of Jeffersons beliefs and actions, reading their published correspondence is advised.

Posted by curious on 04/11/2017 at 11:53 PM

Re: “New downtown Colorado Springs tourism project shot down

I support the idea of doing great things in our community, but building a stadium is not a great idea. How could a common, ordinary, every town has one, stadium be a great idea? Nor is building a convention center a great idea. My idea of a great idea would be to build a world-class LIBRARY next to the Olympic museum to replace the under-whelming one at Cascade and Kiowa, a building which could then, since it's almost across the street from the Marian House, be converted into a haven for the homeless. And I'm OK with Jenkins making hay while the sun shines as long as he's not building his personal fortune using city tax dollars. It would also be a great idea if the citizens were allowed to vote on which, if any, of the proposed great ideas they are willing to contribute their tax dollars to pay for. Tax dollars spent on building a great downtown are tax dollars unavailable to spend on legit govt purposes, such as storm water, roads, public safety, parks, wild fire abatement, and a few other govt functions, which do not include economic development.

15 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by curious on 04/11/2017 at 11:13 PM

Re: “New downtown Colorado Springs tourism project shot down

A vibrant downtown is key to a healthy community. It takes developers with vision to make a great downtown and a great city. And like it or not, it takes broad based tax revenues, and great governmental leaders, in partnership with visionary developers, to assemble the resources - financial and technical - to create something new and great. Developers know their investment will take on great worth only if they build a great community. If the Jenkins family builds a great downtown, but also gets wealthy in the process - we are all better off.

We have had decade after decade after decade of opposition to doing anything great. Generations have passed with nothing meaningful done to our downtown. All the while we watch Denver and Boulder become great cities, where people want to live, where businesses desire to locate. Now we have a great chance to move forward. The downtown stadium should be built - it should have been built 25 years ago. It won't happen - but that it to our detriment. At least, the Olympic Museum is coming in, and will be a shining star for our city,

1 like, 19 dislikes
Posted by Cswilliam on 04/11/2017 at 10:18 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

For some reason the editing program decided to remove all quotations from my last post, so I am posting it again.

You missed some of the best quotations from Jefferson, according to an article published in the NY Times by Paul Finkelman, author of "Slavery and the Founders: Race and Liberty in the Age of Jefferson." He wrote:

Jefferson told his neighbor Edward Coles not to emancipate his own slaves, because free blacks were "pests in society" who were "as incapable as children of taking care of themselves."

Destroying families didn't bother Jefferson, because he believed blacks lacked basic human emotions. "Their griefs are transient," he wrote, and their love lacked "a tender delicate mixture of sentiment and sensation."

Jefferson claimed he had "never seen an elementary trait of painting or sculpture" or poetry among blacks and argued that blacks ability to "reason" was much "inferior" to whites', while "in imagination they are dull, tasteless, and anomalous." He conceded that blacks were brave, but this was because of "a want of fore-thought, which prevents their seeing a danger till it be present."

A scientist, Jefferson nevertheless speculated that blackness might come "from the color of the blood" and concluded that blacks were "inferior to the whites in the endowments of body and mind."

Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/11/2017 at 9:16 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

You missed some of the best quotations from Jefferson, according to an article published in the NY Times by Paul Finkelman, author of Slavery and the Founders: Race and Liberty in the Age of Jefferson. He wrote:

Jefferson told his neighbor Edward Coles not to emancipate his own slaves, because free blacks were pests in society who were as incapable as children of taking care of themselves.

Destroying families didnt bother Jefferson, because he believed blacks lacked basic human emotions. Their griefs are transient, he wrote, and their love lacked a tender delicate mixture of sentiment and sensation.

Jefferson claimed he had never seen an elementary trait of painting or sculpture or poetry among blacks and argued that blacks ability to reason was much inferior to whites, while in imagination they are dull, tasteless, and anomalous. He conceded that blacks were brave, but this was because of a want of fore-thought, which prevents their seeing a danger till it be present.

A scientist, Jefferson nevertheless speculated that blackness might come from the color of the blood and concluded that blacks were inferior to the whites in the endowments of body and mind.

Quoted from the link:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/01/opinion...
.../the-real-thomas-jefferson.html

(There is something wrong with the editor for this blog, as it will not let me display the entire URL on one line, so I was forced to break it up into two lines, so readers can find it and verify it.)

Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/11/2017 at 8:55 PM

Re: “New downtown Colorado Springs tourism project shot down

Suthers told City Council today that "unless something miraculous happens . . . " PLEEZ - NO MIRACLES.

Of course, there's nothing stopping Anschutz and Jenkins from spending THEIR money to build whatever they want next door to the Olympic museum. But these 2 politically-well-connected big wigs have made it clear that they aren't going to build anything anywhere anytime unless they can get City Leaders to give them OUR tax dollars. Glad to see the State reject this proposed taxpayer fleecing. When the State hasn't got dollars in the budget to fix I-25 they certainly have no dollars available to squander to help 2 millionaires build a stadium, flight museum or whatever other hair-brained scheme they and other City Leaders cook up next to "revitalize" downtown COS.

17 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by curious on 04/11/2017 at 7:33 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

In David McCullough's biography of John Adams, Abigail wrote: "It (slavery) always seemed a most iniquitous scheme to me - to fight ourselves for what we are daily robbing and plundering from those who have as good a right to freedom as we have." Both John and Abigail (Massachusett farmers), who were vehemently opposed to slavery, considered slaves to be like themselves, who were entitled, on the basis of common humanity, to the same rights as themselves. They believed that the only difference between the 2 races was the color of their skin- and nothing else.

The cruel treatment slaves were subjected to was not the primary reason for abolishing the practice. Instead, slavery was a moral issue. Those opposed recognized that the master-slave relationship was, as Jefferson - a Virginia planter and slave owner - wrote in 1785, "unremitting despotism." And, prophetically, he wrote, "I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that his justice cannot sleep forever."

1 like, 1 dislike
Posted by curious on 04/11/2017 at 6:52 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

Odin wrote, slavery "It was allowed as a compromise with the goal of eventually eliminating it." Curious wrote, "the moral issue of slavery was put on the back burner, to be dealt with later."

Yet, four score and seven years later our nation became embroiled in its most deadly war, not because Abraham Lincoln wanted to eliminate slavery entirely, but because he wanted to prevent the spread of slavery to states newly admitted to the union.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/11/2017 at 6:18 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

Odin, you did a lot of dancing around the issue and backpedaling, but you explained nothing, and you certainly never proved anything, much less that I am wrong.

1 like, 1 dislike
Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/11/2017 at 5:57 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

"Judging the actions of those in a position to effect policy in the 1780s by the 'enlightened' opinions of those in 2017 is not helpful." Except that I am the one describing the opinions of the 1780's and you are the one attributing to them the enlightened opinions.

If the Founders truly "generally recognized humanity of the slaves" then why did the South institute segregation after losing the War Between the States?

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/11/2017 at 5:46 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

"The northern states (not being agricultural)..." Where did you come up with that? One of main blocs in the abolitionist movement was the Northern farmer, who felt that the south's use of slaves gave them an unfair competitive advantage. Do you know that Connecticut is a major grower of tobacco?

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/11/2017 at 5:35 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

The fact that the founders and abolitionists opposed slavery does not prove they considered the slaves to be human. Just take a look at the animal rights movement. The members may believe that animals are subject to unspeakable cruelty, but none of them believes that a cow, or a horse, or a dog, are human. Likewise, abolitionists observed the unspeakable cruelty that slaves were subjected to, but that does not mean they believed that Blacks were capable of logical thinking or behaving like civilized people.

1 like, 1 dislike
Posted by Mr. K-- on 04/11/2017 at 5:17 PM

Re: “Planned Parenthood exec: Gorsuch is a poor choice

"My point is that the same arguments and logic can be used to evaluate Planned Parenthood. "

And as I explained, you are wrong.

1 like, 3 dislikes
Posted by Odin on 04/11/2017 at 2:22 PM

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