js22 
Member since Apr 19, 2008


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Re: “Lies, damned lies and "intelligent design'

It would be silly to try and discuss science vs. creationism here, or anywhere else where creationists actually show up. The only place where it *would* be sensible for creationists to try and discuss their ideas is where _any_ person with a scientific idea goes : peer-reviewed journals where experts (not gullible rubes) can read a clear presentation and give feedback, point out errors, detect deceptions, etc. But no scientist who claims to support ID (i.e. creationism) has _ever_ presented a clear description of Intelligent Design, or any of its associated "critiques of Darwinism [sic]" to a legitimate peer-reviewed journal. The stories of "suppression" presented in this film, every one of them, have been skewed and nuanced to cover up the incompetence, ethical lapses, and irrelevance of the "victims". If anyone wants to learn more check out http://expelledexposed.com . The clearest and best explanation of Intelligent Design I have ever seen - honestly - is given by ljackso (above) : "I am a Christian. It is impossible that all life on earth just happened." Q.E.D. There really, really isn't anything better out there. Michael Behe, the intellectual heavyweight of the ID movement (i.e., he used to be an actual scientist) quit submitting his work to peer-reviewed publications when he joined the ID movement. Now he hawks his (million dollar bestselling) books on ID to a gullible public, and deletes any actual criticism of his work from the comments section of his web forum. Apart from the very detailed information he presents on molecular biology, his logic is exactly the same as ljackso : "I don't understand X, it looks very complicated, therefore God (er, uh, the Inventor) did it." Behe, BTW, admits that it is "trivially obvious" that all life is descended from a common ancestor, so it is a bit ironic to find him as the scientific frontman for ID. But the true sophistication of the ID movement is the realization that there is actually NO NEED to convince scientists. Why bother joining a fight you know you will lose, when you can stage a fight you know you can't lose. By preaching to the base, the already converted faithful and scooping up gullible followers on the margins, they have been able to advance quite far. Ben Stein's film will certainly not convince anyone with half a brain, but it will energize the movement nontheless. And it happens - pureley by coincidence, I am sure - that the release of the movie coincides with the introduction of bills in Florida and Missippi that would allow teachers to present anything they feel "sounds" scientific in science class, regardless of how goofy or overtly religious it may appear to educated "elites". Mr. Stein has travelled to these states to hold private screenings of his "documentary" with favorably inclined lawmakers. All in all, my response to this movie is that points out a clear and urgent need for more people to be taught about ID. Not its scientific claims - which there are none - but it's techniques, agenda, and overall level of sleaze. Thankfully, the movie itself is a good start.

Posted by js22 on 04/19/2008 at 7:43 PM

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