To Rico Durazno:
Your comments bring up several issues I shall address only one. That is, Traditional views of God vs. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ view. In other words the Nicene Creed accepted by “traditionalist”.
When one reads the Bible he/she will not find the words or the creed, its intent or anything like it. The “traditional” version is extra biblical.
Over the years the Nicean Creed has been reworked many times. Different churches have different versions. There was nothing sacred about changing it when someone wished to revise it. The first version was amended in 381 BC.
I guess my question is why if it a doctrine that defines a true believer and makes a person a Christian if he accepts it as doctrine why did it have to rendered over and over again and again.
You may suppose the creed was unanimously agreed upon but it was not. It got ugly. The nature of God was argued upon in the streets, there were riots. Finally Constantine the pagan emperor stepped in and forced a decision. Constantine was not a Christian not even close. He was however, a murderer. He converted on his death bed.
The creed was made up by a group of men 300 years after the death of Christ. They had no apostolic authority. From their clamorous rankling the Holy Spirit was not there either.
It is self conflicting. Anything decided by a committee usually is.
The center of disagreement was the word “substance”. Here is where Greek paganism comes in. The Hellenistic philosophers believed matter was evil. Christ had to be the same substance as the Father which they supposed was “who knows” what or somehow he would be tainted by things of the earth. The fact that Christ had a material body was just overlooked, I guess.
Why this group of Christians were so affected by Greek philosophy instead of the bible is hard to say. I guess they were trying to sound smart.
Also ignored were Bible verses like these: (Believe me there are many, many more).
Matt. 3 where Christ is baptized by John… when Christ comes out of the water a voice from heaven says “This is my beloved son…. Did the Father really come down to tell us he loves himself? Consider Matt. 26 where Christ is praying to the Father and pleads with Him to let this cup pass from him. If they are of the same matter less substance why would he have to ask himself for help? Does it make any sense to you? The creed is not a mystery it is nonsense.
But you say the Bible say God and Christ are one. Latter-day Saints do also; But in a different way. There is only one chapter in the entire bible that explains the “ONENESS” of the Father and the Son. That is John 17.
In verse 11 Christ prays that the Apostles may be one as the Father and Son are one. How are they ONE? We say they are one in purpose, in love for each other, they are in complete agreement on working out salvation for mankind, one in providing a sacrifice for sin, namely the Son’s atonement.
In verse 22 Christ goes on to pray that all who believe on the words of the apostles would be as ONE also with Christ and the Father.
Are we all to be one big floating substance filling the universe? Would God still be God if we all became materially or spiritually attached to him? That is not the kind of oneness the bible is teaching us.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints should be applauded for its biblical stance about the true nature of the Godhead.
Peter, Paul or Christ did not teach the creed, why should LDS accept it?
We believe you are Christian please don’t say we are not because we don’t except the Nicean Creed. We won’t say you are not Christians because you do believe in it.
To your statement “mainstream LDS church did not start excommunicating members for practicing polygamy until 1920” is incorrect. The manifesto to discontinue the practice was in given in 1890 and a second was issued in 1904. Temple recommends were not available for plural marriages after the dates mentioned. It was assumed that if recommends were not issued the marriages would stop. While marriages were preformed after the manifestos these marriages were not church sanctioned; hence persons that continued the practice of non sanctioned marriages were excommunicated.
You state you are tired of white washed history but maybe others are tired of persons like you not knowing your history.
You may not approve of the Church stand regarding Prop. 8 but the majority of California voters did. Most Americans agree with the LDS position on gay marriage. Religions of all types get involved in state issues especially when moral matters are before the nation. And by the way this type of action is perfectly legal.
For someone who does not like others pointing their fingers, you my dear have done exactly that. Your comments are nothing but finger pointing.
The term gentile, while long ago discarded in popular usage, was never meant to be derogatorily applied. At the time the Church was driven to the West there were few non-members about, it was easy to use the word gentile to describe the few who were not members. By the way Paul used the term in describing non-christians.
It would seem you not wanting a “Mormon in the White House” is not well founded.
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