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Comment Archives: stories: Columns: Queer & There

Re: “Brianna Titone is Colorado's first transgender legislator

Congratulations Brianna!!!!

3 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by TruB on 11/10/2018 at 11:48 AM

Re: “LGBTQ community finds safety and solidarity in throwback balls

"The New York Times push for a narrow definition of gender...This definition of gender could lead to widespread discrimination against transgender people in employment, housing, health care and education..."
You should not have any worries since the paper in question prints nothing too factual, unless this part is factual then still do not worry since choice does not allow for protections.
Those that are transgender were not born that way but felt that way and/or made a choice. So discrimination is something you/they will just have to endure. Demanding things from government such as security has a price. If you are unaware of the cost then stop writing and go back to reading. Do not start taking others liberty away with your demands because that has a price tag from hell.

Posted by Bob Wyman on 11/08/2018 at 5:22 PM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

I've seen criticism of Dr. Peterson across the web and I would hardly even categorize Dr, Peterson as a conservative much less "alt-right". Just a few areas of disagreement:

" If you were to ask to any trans person, they will probably tell you that Petersons principled stance against gender-affirming pronouns stems more from his personal biases than from any well-thought-out, academic position on prescriptivist approaches to grammar." -- How so? What basis is there to believe it's due to his personal biases?

"specious analogies about lobsters" - why are his analogies specious? Many arguments require a frame of reference. You make no attempt to explain why his are specious

'women are optimized for infant care' - certainly when juxtaposed with males, this a a true statement? I don't believe he is saying this is the only calling for women, just that they are better adapted to this task than men?

"transphobia" - the implication is that Dr. Peterson is transphobic. Can you provide statements by Dr. Peterson (in context) that support such a claim?

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by ReasonBeforeEmotion on 10/30/2018 at 4:03 PM

Re: “Transgender rights under attack: federal definition of gender could change, and roll back civil rights protections

Pro Tip:

Gender is physiological and genetic.

Gender orientation is mental.

Sex is a verb, not an adjective.

Title IX when written referenced "sex" to be "gender," as defined above. That's in the Congressional record, and it is the proper interpretation of the law.

Get over yourselves.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Tannim Alt on 10/23/2018 at 4:44 PM

Re: “Intersex people break the binds of society’s rigid gender binary

Well done! I'm an intersex, gay man who wasn't surgically mutilated or forced into a gender picked out at random. We weren't always erased from society and we are very common as you discovered. Shame, secrecy, lies and terror have been the usual hallmarks of an intersex childhood. We were told to never let anyone know unless we were about to have sex with them but with the advent of anesthesia that could let surgeons operate on very young children starting in the mid 60's the erasure took off with knives. The idea was that if they could make our genitals look more regular people wouldn't know any different. There was no concern for our fertility, ability to orgasm or get erections, and often no consideration for our continence either. Some of us went through as many as 30 surgeries just trying to repair damage done by the first one that we never needed at all. Very few intersex people have trouble urinating. The surgeries addressed no medical need at all. Indeed, surgeons referred to a baby born with an intersex body as a "social emergency". Sometimes surgery was done to rebuild genitals while telling parents that it was hernia repair or even cancerous ovaries or testicles! However, they didn't get us all and not every pediatric urology department was so bereft of ethics and morality. A whole lot of us are living in the bodies we were born with and have had happy sex lives and love lives as well. Some of us have man gender, or woman gender and some feel like we're intergender as well as intersex. Thanks for writing with accuracy, with sympathy, and compassion! There are a lot of us in the LGBT+ community.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Jim Costich on 10/18/2018 at 10:41 PM

Re: “Intersex people break the binds of society’s rigid gender binary

Great article, Brandon! Appreciate you writing this and shining light where not enough light makes it. Especially in our hyper conservative, frequently under-educated on other peoples positions town. Wish a few more people on the Internet would take some time to open-mindedly read and learn and grow. Zzyyms story was heartbreaking to read. 50 years of wondering?! 1 in 300! Wow... life is so short and so many people seem only to be able to see things from their limited perspective, and then insist on trying to make other peoples short lives miserable or insignificant. Im tired of all the small-mindedness.

But... you give me hope through what youre doing. So glad that you are writing for the Independent now! Cant wait to read more from you.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Gil Datz on 10/18/2018 at 5:23 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Mr K

Mark Twain once said, "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

3 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Alan Sokal on 10/17/2018 at 6:20 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Mr. Sokal,

Mark Twain once said, "It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

Posted by Mr. K-- on 10/15/2018 at 3:19 PM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Mr K as expected you took time out from correcting others grammar on the web to follow up with what is in "your" mind a cogent argument. The usual realm of the leftist is to shout and protest and you have managed to recreate right here with your pseudo intellectual high handedness ! If I felt you had the ability to debate Dr Peterson on an intellectual equivalence I would have given your ideas some credence! P.S. I have placed lots of grammatical errors here to feed your other peccadillo!!

3 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Alan Sokal on 10/15/2018 at 6:22 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Nothing to read here people, just a jumbled word salad. I really hope the author doesn't get paid much, because this isn't journalism.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Itchy Booger on 10/12/2018 at 11:51 PM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Mr. Sokal claims, "P.S. you," meaning me, "as expected read it," meaning Dr. Peterson's writings, "incorrectly..." The problem is that I never specified what I read or how I interpreted what I read. So you have no basis for concluding I "read it incorrectly," and you are in no position to point out or correct any "mistakes" I may have made. Furthermore, when you write "as expected" you merely affirm your conclusion is based on nothing more than prejudice.

Let's remedy that by looking at one of his statements. In his book, "12 Rules for Life," he writes, "Intolerance of others views (no matter how ignorant or incoherent they may be) is not simply wrong; in a world where there is no right or wrong, it is worse: it is a sign you are embarrassingly unsophisticated or, possibly, dangerous." (http://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/282…)

Now let's look at your comment, where you rail against "the leftist loonies that vomit from gender studies faculties," and "gender studies that base its pseudo science on unproven theories." According to your own mentor, your attitude "is a sign you are embarrassingly unsophisticated or, possibly, dangerous." In your zeal to defend Peterson you have actually totally ignored his teachings!

But do not feel too bad. Many, if not most, of those who have defended him in this thread have made the same error.

1 like, 4 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 10/12/2018 at 10:55 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

"He [Dr. Jordan Peterson] does not use theories..." Your problem, Mr. Sokal, is you have no background in science and you have not got the foggiest notion of what constitutes a scientific theory. According to Merriam-Webster, a theory is "a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena," or "the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another." The job of science is first, to gather facts through observation and experimentation; second, to propose a theory that explains those facts; and finally, to try to prove or disprove the theory.

"He bases all arguments in verifiable facts and studies." By "arguments" you mean "theories." All scientists base their theories on "verifiable facts and studies."

"It is only gender studies that base its pseudo science on unproven theories." Like all fields of science, gender studies bases its theories on "verifiable facts and studies," then tries to prove or disprove those theories. Furthermore, if you had actually done some research before shooting off your mouth, you would have discovered that many theories proposed by academics working in this field are already being contested by opposing theories proposed by other academics also working in the same field.

Finally, gender studies is hardly the "only" field of science working with "unproven theories." Dr. Peterson's own field of expertise, psychology, is rife with unproven theories. Dr. Peterson bases his theories on those of Carl Jung, whose doctrines diverge markedly from those of Sigmund Freud, his mentor. To this day their theories have neither been proven nor disproved, and both approaches to psychoanalysis are currently in clinical use for treating patients. Needless to say, this means that Dr. Peterson also bases his arguments on unproven theories, specifically the unproven theories of Jung.

1 like, 4 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 10/12/2018 at 10:02 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

He does not use theories unlike the leftist loonies that vomit from gender studies faculties! He bases all arguments in verifiable facts and studies ! It is only gender studies that base its pseudo science on unproven theories. P.S. you, as expected read it incorrectly if you lose people like Peterson's reasoned voices you will see more and more people lurching to the support of extreme right wing like individuals.. Not my Fears but it better be yours!

5 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Alan Sokal on 10/11/2018 at 2:25 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

If Dr. Jordan Peterson is capable of "saving" you from your biggest "fears," more power to you, but personally I find his theories to be insipid and banal.

0 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 10/10/2018 at 5:45 PM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Dear (Prefered ProNoun) Beedle. Dr Jordan Peterson who may be only academic capable of saving you from your biggest fears. His lectures and teachings are a strata of biology,psychology and philosophy in which he can delve deep and broad to substantiate his thought's and arguments he uses this to give back a sense of purpose to people and prevent them from running to extreme ideals where you clearly shout your incoherent witterings from. If you and your ilk are not curtailed we are playing in a parallel 1930's Weinmar Republic era simulation which will bring us on your nutty side to a new soviet era catastrophe or as badly to a new right wing equivalence. This white male patriarchy that you rail against provided you with education and freedoms to pursue your wasted college education. Delusion and lies will be your gift to society. Not a very good legacy!

5 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Alan Sokal on 10/10/2018 at 10:38 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Hey uhhh like I don't like this guy, can you protest for me?

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Silky Johnson on 10/10/2018 at 9:47 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Hey can you guys stick around and troll this website? They really deserve it.

Posted by rightsavage on 10/10/2018 at 12:38 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

Hahaha. Finally the crappy cs indy gets the negative attention it deserves. Careful guys they will ban you for no reason because they are liberal nazi facists.

Posted by rightsavage on 10/10/2018 at 12:02 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

There is only male and female.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by StimParavane on 10/09/2018 at 9:23 AM

Re: “Jordan B. Peterson’s transphobic, pseudo-academic, alt-right attitude deserves protesting

It's articles like these that make me frightened to exercise my right to free speech tonight. With shootings and bombings rampant in our society, inciting others to angrily protest (and many protests are known to become violent nowadays) is irresponsible of this author and The Independent. I shouldn't be afraid that I'll leave my two year old an orphan if me and her father go see a lecture. I am in no way, shape, or form a "transphobic bigot" because I want to listen to what Dr JP says and agree with some, not all, of his thoughts. There is such a thing as entertaining two conflicting ideas in your mind and deciding to take what you want and leave the rest you know.
Independent, you have stooped to a new low and have lost a reader.

6 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by whatsitabout on 10/08/2018 at 5:26 PM

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