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Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

Bobforthetruth, youre missing the point here. I know full well about Anstine and Louis and the shattered lives they have left in their wake. Obviously you are very close to the FD and are very aware of the problems Anstine has caused. You are very aware of the PD problems from the past as well. There is no dispute here. So with that said why would you support Trainor? Trainor has allowed the poor behavior to continue and the wake of destruction in our Police Officers and Firefighters lives. The buck stops with Trainor. He has allowed the poor behavior in his leadership because he doesnt support or believe his employees. He listens to and believes his administrators as he should. But... he turns a blind eye when employees come forward to him with problems about administrators. He smiles at the employee(s) and vows to get to the bottom of it. You leave his office in hopes that just one time he will do what is right. Then you find out that he supports management and you become the new management target. The trouble maker. So how many targets over the years do their need to be? Some, not all of the people that have left, have left for good reasons. The lack of intestinal fortitude from Trainor to do whats right. Its not always the employee just like its not always the administration. But at the end of the day, they the media and the City Adminstration always paint a picture of the disgruntled employee. Are some of these from the past, disgruntled employees. I would say yes thats possible. But not all them are disgruntled. Obviously you know all the back story in the FD with Anstine. You are aware then that Trainor was approached multiple times in hopes that he would do something with Anstine. But it fell on deaf ears. So in return, great and not so great people go down the road. So coming full circle, when do we wake up as a community and put a stop to it. Trainor has allowed this behavior from his management team in the past and the present. Because he allows it and doesnt put a stop to it, it has cost us, the tax payers over 2 million dollars in legal defense fees and settlement agreements. The bottom line is that any other City Manager in America that has let bad behavior prevail to the tune of over 2 million dollars would be fired. That 2 million could have been spent on putting more Firefighters and Police Officers to work in the City.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Fountainwatchman on 10/19/2018 at 9:41 PM

Re: “Kavanaugh said ‘what goes around comes around.’ The midterms could prove him right.

How courteous of Mr. Foster to demonstrate the progressive way of thinking: if someone doesn't agree with you, don't bother discovering their reasons or anything. Just insult them. They probably deserve to be disparaged and dismissed anyway.

Posted by Pat Holden on 10/19/2018 at 8:01 PM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

To the watchman, aka loose lips Lewis or so. City management is on the up tick (city growing and being positive). This is all silly. Ask any fireman about Chief "light in loafers". Just an evil place to work with him, I'm sure his new department is the same. His friends are a huge problem of fountain going forward. Small minds are hard to deal with. Yes, dirty Dan was a mistake but again truth came out. The city kicked him down the road. Not officers! Everyone knows that a boyfriend on city council would help a past Chief. The the skeletons and paper files will expose the truth. These FORMER AND OFFICERS UNDER INVESTIGATION... Will be held to what they have done along with the fire station 1 name. Dirty ALL THE WAY AROUND. Not like thier a Facebook #ore or ran over a kid drunk in the 80's. Files and pics..... Ahhh the truth.... :-)

4 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by bobforthetruth on 10/19/2018 at 7:58 PM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

Sunshine wake up and smell the Fountain water. It has nothing to do with the men and women who serve the community. It has everything to do with the administration from the past and present. If you are who I think you are, you yourself worked as a dispatcher when Corsentino was the Chief. Think back to how bad things were for all employees. How dishonest he was and how he harassed women employees. If its you, your own husband left the PD because of the issues. Once Corsentino was forced to resign, things improved. He was held accountable for his behavior. The thing is Trainor had no choice but to call for Corsentinos resignation because the DAS Office was involved. He couldnt sweep it under the rug like he always does with his administrators. The administrators continue to be bullys and allow their own behavior to go unchecked. Until Trainor is held accountable and removed, we will keep seeing this type of behavior from our top officials. Bottom line is we need a new City Manager who will hold administrators accountable.

9 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Fountainwatchman on 10/19/2018 at 7:25 PM

Re: “Reader: Thank God Senators followed their moral compass

You say: "Is Feinstein's view also Ford's view? I think it is."

No, you don't think it is. You know how I know you don't think it is? Because you don't think. You "feel."

You are attributing positions to people with no evidence to support it. When you find the Ford statements, let me know. Otherwise, answer me this: Is it a Republican position that it's okay to grab women by the pussy if you're rich or famous? Must be, eh? I mean, he is the leader of the Republican Party. Therefor, all Republicans must agree with him. He said it.

I'm not so stupid as to actually believe that, but I use it as an example of how stupid you are being in trying to guess Ford's motivations base upon party affiliation, especially on an issue that crosses party lines (ask Weinstein, et al). But we don't need to worry about this because you next stipulate that her motivations were not fame or the benefits thereof. Your citation:

"While she came forward reluctantly and did not appear to seek fame or its benefits, famous she is and benefits will come."

That stipulates to a lack of desire for fame or it's benefits for motivation. Whether fame or benefits come or not, is irrelevant. See how that works? Or are you saying a Medal of Honor Recipient's motivations for action were based upon the fame and benefits thereof that would come when he got home?

So we can all agree to Senatorial motivations (politics), and Kavanaugh's motivations (a seat on the court), and now you and I can agree that Ford's motivation was not fame or it's benefits. I ask you again, what were they?

You say: "So now the debate is centered on Ford's beliefs re the Constitution and whether or not Ford has said she favors a "living" Constitution."

No, it has not become the center of debate. As much as you would like to make that the debate, it is not. It is not the center of debate because you have not met your burden of proof. See how that works?

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Huck Mucus on 10/19/2018 at 3:34 PM

Re: “Tony Wolusky wants to be on University of Colorado's Board of Regents

I knew Tony from the 2008 election cycle when we both worked with a lot of really good people to get Obama elected. He is a wonderful person who would be an asset to any government or educational institution.

Best to you Tony!

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by OldCrank on 10/19/2018 at 3:28 PM

Re: “Reader: Thank God Senators followed their moral compass

So now the debate is centered on Ford's beliefs re the Constitution and whether or not Ford has said she favors a "living" Constitution. In searching online for evidence of Ford's political beliefs, I came up with this informative bit re the benefits that will now flow to Ford.

"While she came forward reluctantly and did not appear to seek fame or its benefits, famous she is and benefits will come. While Democrats insisted that she has nothing to gain, she could gain considerably as a result of her taking a stand before the Senate. She is now a celebrity and likely will be buried in book and movie deals. She has more than half a million dollars waiting for her on GoFundMe. Ford has gone from a professor at Palo Alto University to a social icon." https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4101…

I agree that "Susan Collins has absolutely nothing to do with the question of whether Ford ever said what you say she believes." I bring up Collins because of what she says about the judicial process of confirming a Supreme Court Justice: "Some argue that because this is a lifetime appointment to our highest court, the public interest requires that it be resolved against the nominee. Others see the public interest as embodied in our long-established tradition of affording to those accused of misconduct a presumption of innocence or in cases in which the facts are unclear, they would argue that the question should be resolved in favor of the nominee. Mr. President, I understand both viewpoints. And this debate is complicated further by the fact that the Senate confirmation process is not a trial. But certain fundamentally legal principles about due process, the presumption of innocence, and fairness do bear on my thinking, and I cannot abandon them. In evaluating any given claim of misconduct we will be ill served in the long republic if we abandon the presumption of innocence and fairness tempting though it may be." https://www.vox.com/2018/10/5/17943276/sus…

Collins reminds us that the effort to keep Trump's choice off the Supreme Court by activists and Democrats began BEFORE Trump named his candidate. The alleged sexual assault charge against the Judge was a red herring. The very, very old memories of Ford are not credible, whether presented in a Court of Law or in the Court of Public Opinion.

0 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by curious on 10/19/2018 at 1:38 PM

Re: “Reader: Thank God Senators followed their moral compass

Democrats in politics believe that the Constitution is a "living" document that needs to change with the culture. "Constitutionalists" believe that adhering to the Founders original intent (as explained by Madison, Hamilton and Jay in the Federalist Papers) is what preserves the citizen's liberties and protects the citizenry from a government that would otherwise evolve into tyranny and a dictatorship. The fight to preserve the Constitution is probably THE main battle being fought between Liberals (Democrats) and Conservatives (Republicans).

The highest ranking Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) offered her interpretation of the Constitution at Mondays Senate Judiciary Committee hearing for Trumps nominee to the Supreme Court, Neil Gorsuch. The Democratic senator said she was deeply troubled by the nominees identifying himself as a constitutional originalist. "Feinstein said it is now the committees job to determine whether Gorsuch is a reasonable mainstream conservative fit for the highest court in the land. Feinstein said she believes the concept ignores the intent of the framers." "Its a framework on which to build, she said. I firmly believe the Constitution is a living document that evolves as our country evolves. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrie…

Is Feinstein's view also Ford's view? I think it is.

1 like, 3 dislikes
Posted by curious on 10/19/2018 at 12:42 PM

Re: “Reader: Thank God Senators followed their moral compass

Hi curious:

I don't know how many times I have to try and teach you this, but we are not in a court of law and there is no prosecutor (criminal court) or plaintiff (civil court). So please, first, get that through your skull. This is a public argument. The burden starts with Kavanaugh (and/or his appointer, Trump), prove to the Senate that he is qualified to sit on the Supreme Court. We all get to decide if the Senate's decision is based upon a reasonable interpretation of the evidence they were given. We then proceed from there, as I have already explained.

The evidence here is what they call "testimonial evidence." In that case, the finder of fact (Senate and each individual person who hears the evidence) weighs the evidence and decides on the veracity of the witnesses. People like you get to say that Kavanaugh was more believable. Others get to say Ford was more believable.

When you say "The information regarding Ford's political thinking came from online news reports" you are wrong. You fail to show that she ever said she does not want "a jurist who applies the original intent of the Founders to legal matters that come before him - to be on the Supreme Court." You fail to show where Ford ever said she "wants the Constitution to be a "living" document, subject to the feelings and wishes of the judges who see that their duty is to make law rather than interpret the law against the standard established in the Constitution." Any news reports that say so are fake news unless they have facts. Remember, you should be basing your position on the evidence presented in the proceedings, under oath. If you want to go off the record and start speculating about all kinds of crap, then all the stuff about Kavanaugh is fair game too.

So you see, you are being dishonorable when you try to assign political arguments and/or beliefs to Ford for which you have no evidence. Again, I ask you, can you provide a citation to Ford saying any such things?

Being a registered Democrat, having your name published by The Washington Post, attending a womens march protesting Donald Trump, and making contributions to Democrat causes, including to Bernie Sanders, does not mean she does not want a jurist who applies the original intent of the Founders to legal matters that come before him - to be on the Supreme Court" and it does not mean she "wants the Constitution to be a "living" document, subject to the feelings and wishes of the judges who see that their duty is to make law rather than interpret the law against the standard established in the Constitution."

You stand corrected.

I could school you on how arguments regarding "original intent" are fair weather friends of hypocrites, and I could go down a rabbit hole about Kavanaugh's frat boy shenanigans, or how the FBI that Trump hates didn't conduct a fair investigation and a bunch of other extra-record crap, but I'm trying to stick to the record. You might try it sometime.

Susan Collins has absolutely nothing to do with the question of whether Ford ever said what you say she believes.

3 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Huck Mucus on 10/19/2018 at 12:35 PM

Re: “Reader: Thank God Senators followed their moral compass

,"... the ultimate burden goes back to Kavanaugh. " I disagree. In a Court of Law, the burden is on the prosecution (prosecutor) and In the Senate hearing, the burden is on the accuser. Ford's interrogator afterwards wrote that due to a lack of corroboration, this alleged assault would never have gone to trial. Ford did not meet the burden of proof. The men Ford said were witnesses denied her claims. What is the Court of Public Opinion to make of these 4 denials? Assume these 4 are lying? Have no memory of the event? Or is Ford's memory distorted as to WHO assaulted her?

The information regarding Ford's political thinking came from online news reports. Googling will bring up many of these articles. From https://heavy.com/news/2018/09/christine-b… Shes a registered Democrat, according to The Washington Post; thats the newspaper she allowed to print her name. In addition, The Mercury News reported that a friend of Fords says Ford attended a womens march protesting Donald Trump. And she's made small contributions to Democrat causes, including to Bernie Sanders.

Susan Collins, a Republican Senator (though not a Conservative), is a staunch supporter of women's rights, particularly of Roe v. Wade, and the Affordable Care Act. Collins was undecided about confirming the Judge until she read the FBI report. The speech she gave in the confirmation hearing is well-worth reading. The transcript is here: https://www.vox.com/2018/10/5/17943276/sus…

1 like, 3 dislikes
Posted by curious on 10/19/2018 at 12:04 PM

Re: “Thirty Three cocktail lounge banks on exclusivity

What a joke. Just open a decent bar and stop trying to be cute. If you get as busy as the Cruise room or Death and Co up in Denver (who regularly have a large waiting list just to sit down) then possibly consider a "membership" model. Putting the cart before the horse and trying to generate buzz with exclusivity in Colorado Springs is a recipe for failure. 15C has struggled for years and multiple owners trying this model. Good luck you will need it.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Limbo89 on 10/19/2018 at 12:01 PM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

Ive worked for, and at times alongside, the Fountain Police Department for almost 14 years and this article is so disheartening! Law enforcement officers have a very difficult job, no matter what agency they work for. They are criticized, not supported and often times have a target on their back just for doing their job. It doesnt just affect them but it affects their families. Those attacks are usually from those outside of the agency. However, when the attack comes from those on the inside it can be devastating.

Because of the history I have with FPD I know how far this agency has come. I have worked under several different chiefs and command staffs and the current command is the best FPD has ever had! They are not politicians! They care about their people, they care about the citizens of Fountain and they always strive to make the agency better.

Those behind these allegations, (again these are allegations and so far unproven) Ive worked alongside and it saddens me they would attack in this way. FPD was their family and with this article they are dragging the entire agency down, to include every employee that works for FPD. I personally take a huge offense to that. Why would you all do that? I dedicated myself to my job to protect all of you from the other side of the radio. I had ultimate respect for each of you and the job you did, putting your lives on the line everyday. This entire situation saddens me! I dont understand what the purpose, or your end goal, of all of this is but the respect I had for each of you has now been tarnished.

I want everyone to know what a wonderful police department FPD is. We have the most amazing men and women who are dedicated to each other and to our community. We also have the most amazing citizens who show their support for us everyday. This article and all of these allegations will only make us a stronger blue family so thank you for helping us become even stronger than we already are.

Pam, Im sorry I missed you the other day when you came down to speak with Chief Heberer. I wouldve been more than willing to speak with you that day. I do want you to know my door is still open and I would gladly share with you what an amazing department we have and the phenomenal people that work here. I do hope that is a story you would be willing to write about.

3 likes, 10 dislikes
Posted by #sunshine on 10/19/2018 at 11:22 AM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

Its funny how they will write up and reprimand firefighters and police but the command staff have so many skeletons in their own closets. None of the upper staff are held accountable. Fire took a huge pay cut and the public safety Director has received a 36% increase? A captain can send nude pics to other firefighters wife and they are still employed! Scott Trainor had an agenda when he brought Heberer on and hired Orr. As long as they are all in these positions nothing will change.

11 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Fountaincriminals on 10/19/2018 at 11:15 AM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

I have always thought the Indy Staff, particularly Pam, has the character to stand up to whatever a reader might post in opposition to what is written and published and would be very surprised that the Indy would delete comments. Do you have a hard copy - - or perhaps taken a 'screen grap' of your posts or comments that were deleted?

2 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by R Wehner on 10/19/2018 at 11:00 AM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

Well I guess the independent censors what they don't want to hear (deleted comments).. The truth. Johnson and the former "Canon City" officer were/are engaged in outside school activities. Again he's not the first. #custer county sheriff. Again, ask the citizens of fountain. It was a great place to live and I wish all places had a stand up department like that. Again, let's see the video. If there just warming hands no big deal. Let the public decide.

4 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by bobforthetruth on 10/19/2018 at 10:12 AM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

I know this will probably get deleted. I WANT EVERYONE TO KNOW THEY ARE TAKING COMMENTS DOWN THAT ARE AGENST THIS ARTICLE!!! This to me is a disgruntled ex-employee. I belvie the words the cheif used were "individuals who lack the ability to take responsibility for thier actions" sounds to me like there is more to the sorry. The Fountain Police have been a pillar of the community and for this paper to remove comments to create a biased look is wrong. Shame! Shame! Shame!

4 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by Harry Sedlak on 10/19/2018 at 10:08 AM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

The birds are chriping. #elpasocountydispatch (cause of divorce) fact check- barraza! And someone maybe needs to open records act the body camera of warming hands. Let's see the proof Indy, not just unknown date and time.

4 likes, 11 dislikes
Posted by bobforthetruth on 10/18/2018 at 11:19 PM

Re: “Intersex people break the binds of society’s rigid gender binary

Well done! I'm an intersex, gay man who wasn't surgically mutilated or forced into a gender picked out at random. We weren't always erased from society and we are very common as you discovered. Shame, secrecy, lies and terror have been the usual hallmarks of an intersex childhood. We were told to never let anyone know unless we were about to have sex with them but with the advent of anesthesia that could let surgeons operate on very young children starting in the mid 60's the erasure took off with knives. The idea was that if they could make our genitals look more regular people wouldn't know any different. There was no concern for our fertility, ability to orgasm or get erections, and often no consideration for our continence either. Some of us went through as many as 30 surgeries just trying to repair damage done by the first one that we never needed at all. Very few intersex people have trouble urinating. The surgeries addressed no medical need at all. Indeed, surgeons referred to a baby born with an intersex body as a "social emergency". Sometimes surgery was done to rebuild genitals while telling parents that it was hernia repair or even cancerous ovaries or testicles! However, they didn't get us all and not every pediatric urology department was so bereft of ethics and morality. A whole lot of us are living in the bodies we were born with and have had happy sex lives and love lives as well. Some of us have man gender, or woman gender and some feel like we're intergender as well as intersex. Thanks for writing with accuracy, with sympathy, and compassion! There are a lot of us in the LGBT+ community.

Posted by Jim Costich on 10/18/2018 at 10:41 PM

Re: “City of Fountain conducts questionable deals, most employees live outside the city limits

If Darin or his supporters feels he was done wrong and he has nothing to hide then he should sign a document that allows the city to release his employee files and all complaints, investigations, and pay outs the city settled on his behalf. I feel if that got out there would not be any supporters left. He has bullied, lied, discriminated and terminated firefighters for years when they would not help cover his inappropriate actions. Talk about double standards when is he selling his home in Fountain and moving into his new departments district. So many people always thought he was the golden boy of Fountain that could do no wrong. The ambulance service that he started has never made any money nor pays for itself it cost the tax payers several 100,000 dollars per year to subsidize the ambulance not to mention the additional 180K or more per ambulance more they spend on replacement ambulances every 4-6 years. Lets see how long he stays where hes at before he is fired or retires again. Last ask questions about the 117 fire and who was command of that fire in the beginning as it was on I25 request the dispatch logs and recordings. Its ironic on how many people covers for the incompetence of this guy its about time to shed some light on him. Stop listing to his lip service and start looking at his actions, the transformation of the fire service in Fountain and the renewed partnerships with other fire departments since he was retired. He is the biggest joke in the fire service leadership in the County he never attends any leadership level meetings at the County or State level, he always talked crap about other leaders and departments until he needed them and then he acted like he was there best friends. He was nothing more than a tumor as the Fountain Fire Chief that needed to be cut out and finally Fountain City leader done it and the pay out was the best money they have spent.

9 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by Chad Stone on 10/18/2018 at 10:12 PM

Re: “Public safety workers allege racial discrimination and sexual harassment in Fountain

Maybe someone should look into the situation in early 2018 where the City of Fountain Finance Director (who, at the time, oversaw the HR dept) was fired for sexually harassing women employees at City Hall...physically and verbally. Additionally, while the workplace investigation was ongoing, he was able to continue working and remain in a position of power....overseeing HR. The sexual harassment had been reported repeatedly and the HR department did nothing until it became at least half a dozen women who confirmed the allegations. The leadership of the city is only worried about protecting each other when their unethical behavior is reported and the HR department is all too willing to allow this behavior to continue. Victims get pushed out or put on administrative leave while the perpetrators continue as if nothing has happened. The corruption and unethical behavior runs rampant throughout the leadership at the city. Lower level city employees face the very real threat of retaliation from the HR department and department heads for reporting unethical and illegal behavior. Council needs to do a complete overhaul of the executive leadership and the HR manager needs to be fired immediately.

16 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by fountainwatchwoman on 10/18/2018 at 8:07 PM

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