Joal 
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Re: “Ranger Rich: Ewe could be next

Melissa G. says:

Predation and rape of animals unwilling to consent to sexual acts is not only hard to understand, but is also highly offensive to the majority of people and illegal in many states."

Being "offensive" is no justification for a LAW, if it was we would be in mighty dire shape, christian beliefs offend ME, maybe there should be a law against it since it's history is full of violence and bloodshed, including mass slaughtering and witch burnings.


"is ignoring the fact that most cases of bestiality are non-consensual acts of violence. "

SOME cases as in one or two instances in a year or two at best, not "most" cases.
You fail to recognize that many people do have sex with animals every day, in every state and no harm comes about, it's only the RARE insanely violent cases that you see in the news precisely because they are violent. There are 305 MILLION people in this country, you find ONE guy kills ONE goat and suddenly it becomes a national epidemic we need laws for! Goats die by the tens of thousands every day in this country, billions of chickens are raised in brutal conditions, just research the factory farming issue and that Postvill Iowa meat packing plant that has 9,000 human and child work violations and many animal welfare violations. Videos on Youtube show the deplorable brutality in that plant and others, but instead of working on fixing THAT, you are obsessed with the ONE or TWO bestiality cases in a year you read about in the papers!

I can see you have not read the wikipedia.org extensive article on bestiality with references, peer-reviewed journal studies and more.


"If Mr. Francis actually looked into the facts when reporting this story instead of relying on the opinion of one clearly biased researcher,"

He did, in fact I applaud him for contacting Hani Miletski and Andrea Beetz, if you looked up their credentials and all that you would see how wrong you are. Those are not the only two by any means, R.E.L.Masters devoted an entire chapter in his sexuality book to bestiality in the 50's, Miletki has a published book that is used as THE "bible" by many other researchers and universities; "Understanding bestiality and zoophilia"
Miletski, unlike your others personally went out and interviewed many zoos in their homes, SAW their animals, WATCHED the interaction as a pet owner and so on.

She and Beetz conducted extensive psychological and other evaluations, beetz especially used a very comprehensive, detailed mental/psychological test in her study, and unlike the anonymously completed self surveys used on already incarcerated juveniles in one study, these studies used REAL identity and were conducted by Miletski and Beetz via phone, in person and emails.

If people like you actually READ the studies cited by HSUS et al that claim "96% of juveniles who admitted to bestiality assaulted a person later" you would find that is total BS, I posted some of the study's fact above.
The trouble with the Abel-Jordan "study" is that all we see is the conclusionary remarks in a two page summary, I want to see the actual study papers itself and the methodology so I can determine for myself what the validity of it's claims are.
I suspect since I was unable to find the actual study, only the summary with an hour on Google, the paper is hidden, me wonders WHY. The Fleming-Joring study on 381 juveniles cited by PeTA *IS* published and I have it, that was how I was able to debunk that "96%" claim taken out of context.
I suspect the Abel-Joring summary on bestiality is the same, show me the money or it's just dismissed as another biased anti bestiality "study" conducted on already convicted prisoners, 11 year old juveniles, or anonymously.

As a life-long zoo with over 40+ years experience and many zoo friends, I think I am better qualified to judge whether there is abuse or not.
People like you trying to tell me that I'm wrong and some dimwit researcher who never heard of bestiality before now knows best is like you trying to tell your dentist that he doesn't know how to put a crown in or fill a cavity.

40+ years experience qualifies me as more knowledgeable than some stuffed shirt in some university social studies class writing a dissertation paper on "beastiality", some radical animal rights group whose stated goal is eliminating pet ownership and likens pets to slavery, or some ding-bad hysterical legislator who never witnessed real zoophilia and never actually sat down and talked to a zoophile to learn what the differences between zoophilia and bestiality are.


Post the link to that actual Abel-Joring study- not the two page biased summary, or it's dismissed as rubbish as far as I'm concerned, put the money where your mouth is instead of repeating the same false study papers the rest are, including that pet-abuse site.






3 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Joal on 04/15/2009 at 7:40 PM

Re: “Ranger Rich: Ewe could be next

The public is uncomfortable about something or don't know how to deal with it, someone writes a biased letter to some politician that shares their view on that matter, and they start a moneywasting campaign to have something outlawed that doesn't really hurt anyone!"

Its amazing how this country now seems to be headed down the path of customized laws instigated because of ONE case or ONE person, because of ONE isolated rare case like the guy STRANGLING a goat we pass a stupid law that affects 305 million people and that is as useless and ineffective as they come.
The key is strengthen EXISTING animal cruelty laws instead of sub categorizing every little act into it's own law! We dont need a law against burning a dog with gasoline and another law against kicking a dog and an other law against running a dog over with a car and so on, ONE law that covers animal ABUSE is more than sufficient *IF* it is indeed abuse, if the animal is not injured or harmed then it's not abuse!
Case in Washington involving bestiality with a horse where the man died, the cops spent hundreds of hours pouring thru videos, had every animal examined by veterinarians and they found not one animal had any injuries of any kind and not one of the hundreds of videos the men took with dogs, horses and other animals showed any animal forced or injured, tied down or harmed.
In the end the best they could come up with after wasting scads of money and police time, was a trespassing charge.
If the animals were not injured, well fed, vetted and happy, there was no abuse! but the cops were trying to find something, ANYTHING to pin on them and that my friends becomes a Nazi era police state or gestapo and should scare anyone.
Where does that stop? you get pulled over on the highway and the cop searches your car for something, ANYTHING, even a beer tax that wasn't properly paid on a can of beer in your trunk so he can to arrest you for the sake of a prosecution?


"Pro-Bestiality Bill, Bill says:
The idea behind a law against bestiality is not to persecute people for consensual sex; nor is it to meddle in the mix of what consenting individuals do behind closed doors. The idea, rather, is to protect animals from the disturbing acts of sexual violence we have been witness to throughout history. "

How wrong you are, the law will not affect anyone, it will not save animals and in all probability will cause them MORE harm, more harm you ask? YES! how, you ask? very simple, think about it- an animal owner who is NOT having sex with their animal notices a female dog of theirs has a vaginal discharge, hmm, should I take the dog into the vet for treatment or... if I do maybe the vet will THINK it's the result of a sexual assault and then call the cops and I'd be put on the spot trying to prove I did nothing!
Result: the dog doesnt get treated!
But see, idiots like Rich don't think that far ahead or consider the very real consequences of innocent people caught up in a stupid feel-good law, or animals with a problem involving their genitals or urinary tract being left UNtreated for fear someone might scream; BESTIALITY!!!!!


"Pro-Bestiality Bill, Bill says:
No one is trying to Bible-belt you into a lifetime of the missionary position. We are just trying to protect animals who currently have no protection from sexual assault...and no voice to consent."

Again WRONG, the bills I have seen like this define "animal" as living OR DEAD, and last time I checked a dead animal feels no pain, the bill is not about protecting animals- stronger overall cruelty laws DO, but if you are concerned about animal suffering then DONT EAT MEAT! if you eat meat you support horrific suffering.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Joal on 04/15/2009 at 7:38 PM

Re: “Ranger Rich: Ewe could be next

Guest says:
Maybe we need additional laws to protect us from wackos who think raping animals is "not hurting anyone"...and that laws in place to protect animals from abuse are "fundamentalist"...where do you people come from, anyway,"

You know what's funny? people like you think the answer to everything is passing more laws against everything, this seems to be all legislators do all year these days is dream up yet more arbitrary stupid laws to clog up the court system and drain the treasury even more.

What you didn't know, is that as late as 1967, 17 states STILL had laws on their books making it a CRIME for a white person to marry a BLACK person! it was considered bestiality. Black people were forced to use "colored" washrooms, entrances and the back of the bus. Blacks were required by LAW to do that and were subject to arrest as Rosa Parks was for refusing to give up her seat on a bus to a white man.

Sunday "Blue laws" forbade labor on Sunday- under penalty of law, heresy and blasphemy laws also carried penalties in this country.
All of those foolish arbitrary laws were eventually stricken from the books.

So now we have a rare instance of bestiality hitting the news now and then in a country of 305 million people where 30,000 people a year die on highways in automobile related accidents- many due to alcohol which is legal to buy. In a country where millions of cattle as well as horses a year are brutally raised, transported and slaughtered for a luxury item like meat, and millions more are brutally slaughtered legally every year by hunters for "SPORT", but see none of that matters to fools who justify it all but then scream bloody murder- abuse!!! abuse!! when someone is caught having sex with a dog or a horse.

You want to see the real abuse? go watch some youtube videos of meat packing slaughter houses where animals have their throats cut and are gutted while still conscious, where cattle are branded, have horns cut off, castrated and have other surgical procedures done on them with zero anesthetics. I have seen the videos, including some on kosher meat production at a plant raided by the authorities in Postville Iowa.

Here, I dare some of you who think all bestiality is automatically abuse to watch this film and come back here and tell me which is the bigger problem that needs a LAW, the 1-2 bestiality cases you might see in your state in a year or this which goes on every day around the country perfectly legally;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ74SpTA_-o

An abbreviated version of the documentary recording the horrific conditions within the world's largest glatt kosher slaughterhouse, AgriProcessors Inc. Narrated by author, Jonathan Safran Foer, this video records the multiple abuses inflicted on animals within the plant. These conditions have raised questions within the Jewish community on the consumption of meat and exposed a scandal in the kosher meat industry.

Here's another one;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IObHEfD3QAE

Laws have gotten way out of hand and people like RIch have their priorities all screwed out of shape, she should be pushing a bill outlawing factory farming of animals and the related slaughter house meat production practices.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Joal on 04/15/2009 at 7:35 PM

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