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Re: “Reader: Another civics lesson, via Obama-era politics

Jeff has been running down "OCare" for years and just like his counter parts to the so called right they have came up with NOTHING. There latest dumps anyone and everyone but themselves including Jeff unless he left College making millions. No one thinks about health care as a right until its needed then they have a fit if there not first in line. Get politics out of the way and get some Health care people involved they will come up with the solutions that are needed. Single payer is a solution but the money and greed is in the way.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Rocky Smith on 05/28/2017 at 3:36 PM

Re: “Reader: Another civics lesson, via Obama-era politics

This is what I love about the GOP, Trumptards particularly -- history and policy subordinated to folklore and wishful thinking whenever the facts become inconvenient. OK, Jeff, here's what you fail to understand about Obamacare: 1. "Meddling liberals" decided it was finally time to do something about the disgrace of America being the only so-called modern country in the world where access to basic health care is a for-profit commodity, not a basic human right / necessity. 2. The original version of the ACA did everything Mr. Obama claimed. Unfortunately, money wins virtually every argument in our society, so compromises and concessions needed to be made to protect corporate profits to get anything passed. 3. The abomination that resulted still is better than anything the Republicans have come up with. Look it up. You can believe the facts or you can believe Fox.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Rev G on 05/28/2017 at 11:47 AM

Re: “Reader: Another civics lesson, via Obama-era politics

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Jeffrey, now please allow me to retort...


1) Meddling, self-absorbed liberals ponder how they can get the government to intervene on their behalf to force others to fund initiatives and benefits they feel they're "entitled" to.

R- By definition, liberals are not self-absorbed. Personally, I would just like to see billionaires and corporations pay the same percentage of income tax that I do. We wouldnt be having these arguments about national debt or who is going to pay for what.

2) Although they can't explain where/why/how the government has been granted the authority to force the citizenry to purchase a private good and/or commodity under penalty of law, they nevertheless continue under the auspices of "helping others," while claiming health-care is a "right."

R- No one is forced to buy government health insurance via the individual mandate, but individuals are strongly incentivized to have the minimum essential health coverage to avoid a penalty. In the past, emergency rooms were filled with the poor and uninsured and their bills were paid with taxpayers money. Now that money subsidizes their insurance and the costs are spread across a greater size insurance pool. Just like auto insurance, a well-established precedent, you have to buy automobile insurance for your pickup truck, dont you? This is to protect your financial investment in your vehicle, your house, and your bank account when you crash your truck while driving to Walmart.

3) They decide to intrude upon the lives and individual choices of the populace by demanding mandatory, not voluntary, participation in the scheme.

R- See 2) above, and if people had a choice whether to insure their vehicles, many would not, either too self-confident or too poor. When they run their $250 72 Oldsmobuick into your new $50,000 dually, you could sue them, if youd like to pay a lawyer for nothing, which is what you would collect, $0. I bet you wouldnt like that one bit.

4) Their "leader" (cough) makes utterly ridiculous statements like you can keep your policy and/or doctor and that the measure will save families $2,500 annually just so he can create a "legacy" as part of his of social engineering.

R- Their leader was your leader, unless you are an illegal immigrant, well, are you? Can you prove it? Where are your papers?

5) Those insufficiently intelligent/nuanced to recognize such obvious falsehoods soak up the suggestions unquestioningly.

R- Or those insufficiently educated to recognize their arguments use only worn out rhetorical devices and attacks ad hominem, its old stuff, amateurish and crude, like a playground taunt.

6) Dem legislators support the measure many without actually reading it as part of their partisan subservience to party, not principle or consequences.

R- Wow. That sounds familiar, kind of like the ACA repeal that was voted on more than 50 times, no substance, no chance of passing the senate, or your leaders desk, just an exercise in wasting time and taxpayer money.

7) Architects rely on the support of the "stupid" for continued support.

R- You must be talking about Trump voters. Your sentence is also redundant sentence.

8) The measure is passed along completely partisan lines, thus underscoring how inherently flawed it is.

R- see 6). Dj vu all over again. Youre repeating yourself. Out of rhetorical devices?.

9) Predictably, the rollout is a disaster, key aspects are delayed or never implemented, policies are cancelled, premiums skyrocket and insurers leave the exchanges.

R- You predicted that? Probably not. But I can predict what will happen if the AHCA passes as it currently reads, no more Republican majority in congress.

10) Regressives trot out manufactured outrage and faux-indignation that the tire-fire is imploding and is finally repealed replaced by an only slightly less odious meadow muffin.

R- You didnt bring a single cogent argument to the table, just a lot of name calling, provocation, and useless bluster. But in the interest of fairness, here are some supporting arguments from your fellow Republicans:

You know, I think maybe its easier to run on these platitudes, run on a platform like this, said Rep. Don Bacon, R-Neb., when asked by local radio station if Republicans ran on repeal simply to get elected or re-elected.

Rep. Pat Meehan, R-Pa., promised that if elected he would repeal, defund, delay, and dismantle Obamacare. He recently conceded, in an interview with Delaware County Daily Times, that previous repeal efforts were a sham.

Rep. Joe Barton, R-Texas, told reporters last Friday that the dozens of repeal votes were cast in the past without any plan for viable legislation. Sometimes youre playing fantasy football and sometimes youre in the real game, Barton told Talking Points Memo. We knew the president, if we could get a repeal bill to his desk, would almost certainly veto it. This time we knew if it got to the presidents desk it would be signed.

Paul Ryan said We were a 10-year opposition party, where being against things was easy to do, adding that his party wasnt prepared to be the governing party.

The assault on ACA was an exercise in cynical politics, and an outright repeal was never on the table. The arguments for repealing it lack substance, kind of like your spitting angry 10 step program.

R. Jones

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by rangesaf on 05/28/2017 at 8:18 AM

Re: “Everybody bikes, or can

Oh Carrie, you beautiful bicyclist you! We are so lucky to have you back on two wheels! Wonderfully written! Can't wait for this year's Bike Summit. Here's to hoping we can help many others rediscover and discover the joy of cycling!

Posted by Torie Giffin on 05/27/2017 at 8:42 PM

Re: “Reader: Another civics lesson, via Obama-era politics

Actually, progressives have always had a much better plan: single payer. President Obama modeled the ACA after Governor Romney's healthcare plan for Massachusetts, hoping to placate Republicans. Now that the Republican Party has thoroughly repudiated its own best solution for healthcare, it is no wonder they are boxed into a corner.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 05/27/2017 at 6:33 PM

Re: “Reader: Another civics lesson, via Obama-era politics

Funny though even with all the problems and the massive amount of hours trying to kill it, repeal it and defund it no one has come up with a damn thing thats better.

4 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Rocky Smith on 05/26/2017 at 9:21 PM

Re: “Reader: "Make America a Democracy again"

This is off-subject, but I can't find the letters that appear in the May 24th issue of the Indy itself. It used to be that those letters could be found and discussed here online. Now, the only place I can find those letters is to go to the digital issue, and as near as I can figure, there is no place for discussion there either. Any suggestions?

0 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by asawatcher on 05/26/2017 at 2:52 PM

Re: “Reader: "Make America a Democracy again"

Not sure Elaine knows what an oligarchy is, or the difference between a representative democracy and a republic.

0 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by Odin on 05/26/2017 at 1:53 PM

Re: “Reader: "Make America a Democracy again"

No don it isnt pushed upon you any more than it is pushed upon us. fact is change is good when it helps the general population, and not so good when it effects just a specific income slot. sure you will always have people that take advantage of the system but you dont go and mess over the hard working american tax payers to get at these people.

here is one we all know.........The needs of the many out weight the needs of the few.

4 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Jay Whynotaskme on 05/26/2017 at 12:29 PM

Re: “Tribute to Russel: rival, friend

I could name many cases where Russell did not seek justice, but then again I was not his drinking buddy

Posted by apathetic on 05/26/2017 at 10:00 AM

Re: “Everybody bikes, or can

Great article

Posted by Keith Wood on 05/26/2017 at 8:57 AM

Re: “Reader: Free speech is for everyone except Christians

This is the insipid garbage CSIndy insists on publishing? And you wonder why this country is screwed.

0 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by karinkdf82 on 05/26/2017 at 3:44 AM

Re: “Reader: Free speech is for everyone except Christians

Jim Harper you nothing but an overgrown child that never got disciplined. Ask Jack Phillips up in Denver, he choose to refuse service to people that he did not agree with based on faith. He got punished by the state. They have yet to demand a Conservative Christian pastor to marry a couple...but that is coming. You can me a liar, but you guys more so in order to impose your childish and dare I say wicked and vile agenda on the of rest of us.

0 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Don McCullen on 05/25/2017 at 10:18 PM

Re: “Reader: "Make America a Democracy again"

Progressives have been doing a better job at phrases that Conservatives have...and done it much longer. Elanie was projecting...not necessary lying.

1 like, 3 dislikes
Posted by Don McCullen on 05/25/2017 at 9:53 PM

Re: “Reader: "Make America a Democracy again"

Don sounds like a result of the 'moral majority' who has spent years claiming liberals are all evil.
Conservatives love to use phrases that are actually describing themselves. Elaine ain't lying.

6 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by TruB on 05/25/2017 at 12:14 AM

Re: “13 authoritarian jokes on America

"Every day the Media makes up a new story..." George Bernard Shaw once observed, the punishment for being a liar is not that no one will believe you, but you cannot believe anyone else.

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Mr. K-- on 05/24/2017 at 10:43 PM

Re: “Everybody bikes, or can

What a fabulous read, you nailed it!

I look forward to many rides like you described and truly, there is nothing like experiencing the beauty of Colorado Spring from the seat of your bike, at a very human speed.

Pedal On!

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Allen Beauchamp on 05/24/2017 at 6:26 PM

Re: “Reader: "Make America a Democracy again"

Elaine, you just projecting the hate and bully tactics onto us. You just don't want to push back on your goals to fundamentally transform America. The real Oligarchy are those who push the progressive agenda on those who oppose it...especially unaccountable judges and those who want us to affirm the sins that the progressives what to impose on people like me who oppose it. The left has been good at projecting their evil on their enemies.

5 likes, 13 dislikes
Posted by Don McCullen on 05/24/2017 at 3:50 PM

Re: “Everybody bikes, or can

Beautifully said Carrie!

3 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Michael Rigney on 05/24/2017 at 3:48 PM

Re: “Long live the landline

The FCC should remove the universal access fee. It has been since 1996 and meant to ensure all parts of the US have internet access. That should have been accomplished by now. I'd like a landline for emergencies. Remember back when the phone companies were going to allow a home phone # that rang in your house and you'd be able to pick up your cell and leave home with your home phone. Most of these internet phones all go out if the electric or internet goes down. A landline had a dial tone even in a blackout.

2 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by TruB on 05/24/2017 at 2:51 PM

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